Halloween Horror Nights 28 Speculation

[hunnylvr]

2 hours ago, StupidStupidDan said:

Except they're working on a TV series as well....and then movies that tie into the TV series...and then videogames...and then..

 

No.  Just no.  NONONONONONONONONONOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[StupidStupidDan]

22 hours ago, hunnylvr said:

 

No.  Just no.  NONONONONONONONONONOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Sorry, but at least the first part (the TV series) is true.

[PeoriaBJJ]

f**king PURGE.... NO.

[sikbyrd350]

I'm not a Purge fan, haven't liked any of the Purge houses, and I was totally ready to hate on the sz, but I thought it worked really well. With that being said, I think it could be brought back one more year as a sz before needing to be shelved for a bit.

[Jediwhit82]

So, looks like Alien, Predator, and AHS will never come back to HHN

[hunnylvr]

1 hour ago, Jediwhit82 said:

So, looks like Alien, Predator, and AHS will never come back to HHN

 

Um, why?

[HHNManics]

http://deadline.com/2017/12/conjuring-lawsuit-settled-warner-bros-new-line-demonologist-tony-derosa-grund-1202226100/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[wow]

1 hour ago, HHNManics said:

http://deadline.com/2017/12/conjuring-lawsuit-settled-warner-bros-new-line-demonologist-tony-derosa-grund-1202226100/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

YES IT CAN FINALLY COME

[mystiquephreeq]

8 hours ago, hunnylvr said:

 

Um, why?

 

The mouse bought 21st Century Fox, but...

 

Rights are a fickle and complicated beast. Who owns the theatrical rights vs distributing rights vs movie rights vs theme park rights...so on, so forth. Weaver owns the rights to her likeness, so Ripley was always likely to be a no show in a house. The xenomorphs could even possess rights for the characters. 

 

 

[Maxmoser]

https://www.change.org/p/save-bill-and-ted-at-universal-orlando-savebillandted 

[StewieGriffin]

4 hours ago, mystiquephreeq said:

 

The mouse bought 21st Century Fox, but...

 

Rights are a fickle and complicated beast. Who owns the theatrical rights vs distributing rights vs movie rights vs theme park rights...so on, so forth. Weaver owns the rights to her likeness, so Ripley was always likely to be a no show in a house. The xenomorphs could even possess rights for the characters. 

 

 

 

This is a little bit of a different scenario. First off, distribution rights vs. film and theatrical rights, are different things. Distribution rights, are just the exclusive rights of actually releasing the film, either in North America, or globally. When it comes to major studios, like Disney for example, they have their own in-house distribution wings. Disney, has Buena Vista which physically release the films. Walt Disney Studios, is the production wing (among others). They make the film's, which are then distributed by Buena Vista. 

 

In the case of the FOX acquisition, Disney is physically purchasing ALL of Fox's film assets, as well as some of its t.v. assets. People need to realize, it isn't a merger. Disney is flat out buying their properties. This includes their entire film library. That would include the likes of yes, Alien and Predator. Disney would own the exclusive rights to those characters. And because they already distribute their own films, that will not be an issue.

 

When it comes to character likeness, yes, they may not own certain likenesses. However, they own the character. The right to use the character, would ultimately be Disney's. It works the same as any other IP. If Universal wants to use it, they need to go to the rights holder, which ultimately would be The Rodent.

 

Keep in mind, all of this still needs to be approved by the Government. Which is said to take about 12 to 18 months. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by StewieGriffin

[mystiquephreeq]

9 hours ago, StewieGriffin said:

 

This is a little bit of a different scenario. First off, distribution rights vs. film and theatrical rights, are different things. Distribution rights, are just the exclusive rights of actually releasing the film, either in North America, or globally. When it comes to major studios, like Disney for example, they have their own in-house distribution wings. Disney, has Buena Vista which physically release the films. Walt Disney Studios, is the production wing (among others). They make the film's, which are then distributed by Buena Vista. 

 

In the case of the FOX acquisition, Disney is physically purchasing ALL of Fox's film assets, as well as some of its t.v. assets. People need to realize, it isn't a merger. Disney is flat out buying their properties. This includes their entire film library. That would include the likes of yes, Alien and Predator. Disney would own the exclusive rights to those characters. And because they already distribute their own films, that will not be an issue.

 

When it comes to character likeness, yes, they may not own certain likenesses. However, they own the character. The right to use the character, would ultimately be Disney's. It works the same as any other IP. If Universal wants to use it, they need to go to the rights holder, which ultimately would be The Rodent.

 

Keep in mind, all of this still needs to be approved by the Government. Which is said to take about 12 to 18 months. 

 

As the loophole with The Shining displayed, rights (especially character rights from older movies) are very complicated. Purchasing the rights to a film doesn't necessarily give you rights to the character. Owning the character doesn't necessarily give you all the rights to the character either. The Shining would have never happened if character rights were as simple as that. King owns the rights to Jack Torrance, but Kubrick's Jack Torrance was still present. There was an opera based on The Shining. These rights were different than Kubrick rights. 

 

For example, does Scott own any rights to the Alien franchise? Who owns the rights to the xenomorphs? Was it 20th Century Fox (the owner of the franchise)? There is, also, the complication of rights then vs rights now. Theatrical rights are "play rights". They are live performance rights. Theme park rights are attraction rights. Many of these rights are more ephemeral and ethereal. It's why it took so long to obtain The Exorcist. Theatrical rights and theme parks rights weren't really a thing when the movies were made. 

 

Finally, we have no information about existing contracts. We don't know what was in the original contract for AvP. We don't know the length of the contract. We don't know if further contracts were already made this year or previous years. These things play a very important role in determining whether or not the xenomorphs will appear at the event again. 

 

Example: Disney couldn't yank Marvel from Uni. Disney can never yank Marvel from Uni due to existing contracts. 

 

What we do know is that Universal replicated scenes from AvP on one coast and created its own story on the other coast. This tells us film rights and character rights were obtained. 

 

There is no need to doomsday this as a "never going to see Alien or Predator again!!"

 

One more big example of character rights vs film rights:

 

WB owns the film rights to the HP Franchise, they do not own the rights to the characters. WB can't create Harry Potter and the Enchanted Bicycle. They can't create more stories for the characters because they don't own the characters. 

 

One more edit: There's another potential rights holder we are forgetting. Giger's estate. What rights to the xenomorph does the Giger estate hold?

 

Final edit (I hope): 

 

There's one more thing that we know. Universal already loopholed Disney's theme park rights to Alien by using AvP to bring the xenomorphs into a house. Rights have workarounds. 

[StewieGriffin]

1 hour ago, mystiquephreeq said:

 

As the loophole with The Shining displayed, rights (especially character rights from older movies) are very complicated. Purchasing the rights to a film doesn't necessarily give you rights to the character. Owning the character doesn't necessarily give you all the rights to the character either. The Shining would have never happened if character rights were as simple as that. King owns the rights to Jack Torrance, but Kubrick's Jack Torrance was still present. There was an opera based on The Shining. These rights were different than Kubrick rights. 

 

For example, does Scott own any rights to the Alien franchise? Who owns the rights to the xenomorphs? Was it 20th Century Fox (the owner of the franchise)? There is, also, the complication of rights then vs rights now. Theatrical rights are "play rights". They are live performance rights. Theme park rights are attraction rights. Many of these rights are more ephemeral and ethereal. It's why it took so long to obtain The Exorcist. Theatrical rights and theme parks rights weren't really a thing when the movies were made. 

 

Finally, we have no information about existing contracts. We don't know what was in the original contract for AvP. We don't know the length of the contract. We don't know if further contracts were already made this year or previous years. These things play a very important role in determining whether or not the xenomorphs will appear at the event again. 

 

Example: Disney couldn't yank Marvel from Uni. Disney can never yank Marvel from Uni due to existing contracts. 

 

What we do know is that Universal replicated scenes from AvP on one coast and created its own story on the other coast. This tells us film rights and character rights were obtained. 

 

There is no need to doomsday this as a "never going to see Alien or Predator again!!"

 

One more big example of character rights vs film rights:

 

WB owns the film rights to the HP Franchise, they do not own the rights to the characters. WB can't create Harry Potter and the Enchanted Bicycle. They can't create more stories for the characters because they don't own the characters. 

 

One more edit: There's another potential rights holder we are forgetting. Giger's estate. What rights to the xenomorph does the Giger estate hold?

 

Final edit (I hope): 

 

There's one more thing that we know. Universal already loopholed Disney's theme park rights to Alien by using AvP to bring the xenomorphs into a house. Rights have workarounds. 

 

Lots to unpack here, so this is going to take a while.

 

First of all, the Disney Acquisition of the Fox assets comes with those existing contracts. The reason Fox is selling, is because they are suffering financially. So whatever existing rights and contracts they have, come with the purchase. Disney, is also absorbing the debt Fox has. In fact, the total purchase of the assets, are somewhere north of $60 Billion which includes the cash Disney is giving Fox, for their debt. Any current property under the Fox banner, will become a Disney property. It's literally a fire-sale (everything must go. Minus Fox News, Fox Sports and Fox Broadcasting). It is being handed over to Disney, property bought as is.  

 

20th Century Fox, most certainty owns the Alien franchise. When any screenplay is written, doesn't matter what it is, the screenplay is bought by a studio, which then owns the material. You are literally selling everything in said screenplay, to the studio. Generally, in most cases  (like Alien for example), the originator of the characters and such, get a "Creator", or "Characters by" credit. In the case of Alien, Ridley Scott, does not get a characters created by credit, as he did not write the screenplay. Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shusett do. At the end of the day though, 20th Century Fox, still owns the property and the characters. Gieger, is the creator of the Alien design (he's also credited as much in the films). However, Fox, owns the right to use said design when it comes to the Alien property. It's theirs to do what they want. Also, using Geiger as an example, because he may own the design of the character, more than likely his estate gets a residual every time the Xenomorph is used. James Cameron, is another example. After Terminator 2, the Terminator rights went to Warner Bros.. However, because Cameron created the characters, and they are being used, he gets a characters created by credit. He also more than likely, gets a residual from Warner Bros. to use the characters. But the studios still retain the right to do whatever they want with them. The only work around for AVP, is that it was a Fox and Brandywine property, loosely based on characters and settings, from the AVP films. Including Predator. Universal never directly adapted anything from the AVP films. They only paid Fox to use the Alien and Predator license. The houses, were based around stories of their own volition. 

 

With The Shinning, there was no "loophole". It's a simple matter of Warner Bros. owns the film rights to The Shinning. So they went to Warner Bros. and used the film version of the story (this included the characters, looks, ETC.). This however, is a bit different. When dealing with books and novelizations, you have an added layer of copyright. When you publish a novel, you copyright your material. Everything in it, is yours. Using The Shinning as an example, King, sold the rights to use his novel to Warner Bros., so they could make a film version. Warner Bros. then has free reign to do whatever they want, to make their film. Which in the case of The Shinning, is legendary, as King hates their version of his story. So, in later years, King got more savvy and gained more control over what happens to his adaptations.  

 

In terms of Theme Park rights, it's a bit more complicated. The Marvel contract, is an entirely different animal than Universal using an IP at Halloween Horror Nights. However, the principle is the same. You go to the rights holder. Which at the time, was just Marvel. In the case of Alien or Predator, it is 20th Century Fox and soon to be Disney. The same now goes for The Simpsons. However, this is more along the lines of the Marvel contract. Whatever existing deal Universal has with 20th Century Fox, Disney probably wont be able to touch it. The Harry Potter situation, is also a bit different. The Wizarding World of Harry Potter, is based off of the films. The look, the music; everything down to the design of the wands, is based off of the films. This, is all Warner Bros.. With Harry Potter though, you have the unique situation of J.K. Rowling, having more input than usual. However, it goes little beyond just making sure the illusion of the Wizarding World isn't broken. It was more than likely, a stipulation in the contract Universal made with Warner Bros.. And in this case, you have someone who owns the copyright to the books, as well as being a producer on the films. You also have the added influence now, of Rowling both writing and producing The Fantastic Beast films. Which give her extra clout when it comes to the use of the characters. 

[swinney2]

How about a best of Chucky house?

[wow]

Word has it from Legacy and the Orlando United forums that Universal locked they’re IP’s very early for 2018, like they booked some in August. The following are IP’s that are most likely coming to HHN 28 so read if you want, and * will indicate if the property has already been leaked as a locked property :

 

- The Conjuring

- Nightmare On Elm Street*

- Stranger Things*

- Halloween 

- American Horror Story: Cult

- IT

 

Once again, these aren’t confirmed but just be aware that these definitely have a strong chance of coming to the event

 

Edited December 31, 2017 by wow

[Legacy]

4 hours ago, wow said:

Word has it Universal locked they’re IP’s very early for 2018, like they booked some in August. The following are IP’s that are most likely coming to HHN 28 so read if you want, and * will indicate if the property has already been leaked as a locked property :

 

- The Conjuring

- Nightmare On Elm Street*

- Stranger Things*

- Halloween 

- American Horror Story: Cult

- IT

 

Once again, these aren’t confirmed but just be aware that these definitely have a strong chance of coming to the event

 

Come on... at least acknowledge where this info is coming from.

[wow]

1 hour ago, Legacy said:

Come on... at least acknowledge where this info is coming from.

Sorry, last year people would get annoyed if you sourced it

[Drummanmatt]

20 hours ago, wow said:

Word has it from Legacy and the Orlando United forums that Universal locked they’re IP’s very early for 2018, like they booked some in August. The following are IP’s that are most likely coming to HHN 28 so read if you want, and * will indicate if the property has already been leaked as a locked property :

 

- The Conjuring

- Nightmare On Elm Street*

- Stranger Things*

- Halloween 

- American Horror Story: Cult

- IT

 

Once again, these aren’t confirmed but just be aware that these definitely have a strong chance of coming to the event

 

I’d be happy with those, but I think cult would work better as a scarezone than a house

[PeoriaBJJ]

Yeah Cult as a house sounds like a stretch. SZ would be better. And I'm one of the few people that really liked this last season.

On 12/29/2017 at 8:24 AM, swinney2 said:

How about a best of Chucky house?

[swinney2]

13 hours ago, PeoriaBJJ said:

Yeah Cult as a house sounds like a stretch. SZ would be better. And I'm one of the few people that really liked this last season.

Just some wishful think with the Chucky house. He freaked me out when I was little so I think a house with that stuff would really freak me out.

[Brandon_Voorhees]

Grown men in Chucky costumes looks terrible (consult last year's Terror Tram for proof). Hated AHS: Cult and actually really liked every other season. I also think it would be better as a zone than house because the whole thing bored the life outta me. 

[TheShape1031]

Hey everyone. First time poster here on HNN. Happy to be a part of the forum. Big fan of HHN Orlando having first gone in 2016. Looking forward to what this year will bring. 

 

Just a quick question, and I believe I saw the reasoning before, but why hasn't a Scream house been considered for HHN? I think I read somewhere that they had a Scream house ready and it fell through at the last minute or something? I feel like Scream would make a great IP if it's possible. 

 

Dream Scenario for this year IP wise

-Stranger Things

-Halloween

-IT

-A Universal Monsters House

-The Conjuring

-NO MORE PURGE, SO SICK OF IT

-Kind of over AHS as well. Maybe do a scare zone instead of another house. 

 

 

[mystiquephreeq]

10 hours ago, Brandon_Voorhees said:

Grown men in Chucky costumes looks terrible (consult last year's Terror Tram for proof). Hated AHS: Cult and actually really liked every other season. I also think it would be better as a zone than house because the whole thing bored the life outta me. 

 

If a Chucky house occurred, they wouldn't use grown men. They would use the same body type used in the past. Females who are 5 ft 1 or shorter. 

 

(All the Chuckys in 09 were females)

 

53 minutes ago, TheShape1031 said:

Hey everyone. First time poster here on HNN. Happy to be a part of the forum. Big fan of HHN Orlando having first gone in 2016. Looking forward to what this year will bring. 

 

Just a quick question, and I believe I saw the reasoning before, but why hasn't a Scream house been considered for HHN? I think I read somewhere that they had a Scream house ready and it fell through at the last minute or something? I feel like Scream would make a great IP if it's possible. 

 

Scream fell through due to rights issues. 

 

Since retail hell is finally over...

 

The Ifrit is a Constant Reader. 

 

@hunnylvr could probably match up all those creatures with me. 

 

 

[happy bunny rabbit]

On 12/14/2017 at 10:24 AM, Jediwhit82 said:

So, looks like Alien, Predator, and AHS will never come back to HHN

this is probable but I had a terrifying thought the other night that fox also owns Starz and I'm not 100% sure but I know they own some kind of evil dead rights and I cried myself to sleep that night

[TheShape1031]

22 hours ago, mystiquephreeq said:

 

Scream fell through due to rights issues. 

 

Since retail hell is finally over...

 

The Ifrit is a Constant Reader. 

 

@hunnylvr could probably match up all those creatures with me. 

 

 

 

Ah okay, thank you for clarifying. That's what I thought had occurred. Is there any chance of it being explored again, or after what happened with the rights it's basically a lost cause? It's a shame because I think it would be a great house. So much they could do with it.