Halloween Horror Nights 25 Wishful Thinking

[Dead Inside]

Teebin on OU posted this:

Another tent?

[JDW]

he's... uh... pitching a tent?

[PeoriaBJJ]

This is where you have to start thinking about the massive breadth of people who attend HHN and the potential for diminishing returns.

Not everyone CAN go more than one night. Either because of finances or schedule, it's not an option. Those people have just as much right to do everything THEY WANT to do on the single night they attend. If they can't, especially because they run out of time, than it impacts their perception of the event. If want to see all the houses, but get less than half they'd be pissed. And I wouldn't blame them. It's why house closures are such a big friggin' deal.

It's already bad enough your essentially forced into Express in order to do all the houses in a single night. Now, I have to take another night off work, pay for another babysitter, pay parking again, risk weather again, pay for food and drinks again all while hoping my friends are willing to do the same just for the blessed opportunity to see all the houses? To legitimately ask that of a guest is insulting and is an easy way to fall from the good graces Universal has strived to put themselves in.

Agreed. It only effects me in that when I go for 4 nights (we make a vacation out of it) I want to see each house every night. Its too hard to remember everything, and most of the time catch everything, if you just go through a house once. I like hitting everything 4 times a year to make sure I get as much as I can out of it.

[ThNdIzNiR]

This is where you have to start thinking about the massive breadth of people who attend HHN and the potential for diminishing returns.

Not everyone CAN go more than one night. Either because of finances or schedule, it's not an option. Those people have just as much right to do everything THEY WANT to do on the single night they attend. If they can't, especially because they run out of time, than it impacts their perception of the event. If want to see all the houses, but get less than half they'd be pissed. And I wouldn't blame them. It's why house closures are such a big friggin' deal.

It's already bad enough your essentially forced into Express in order to do all the houses in a single night. Now, I have to take another night off work, pay for another babysitter, pay parking again, risk weather again, pay for food and drinks again all while hoping my friends are willing to do the same just for the blessed opportunity to see all the houses? To legitimately ask that of a guest is insulting and is an easy way to fall from the good graces Universal has strived to put themselves in.

So... using your logic, when you go to a theme park like the Magic Kingdom (during it's busiest time of year) for example, you should be able to see every show, ride every ride, check out every store etc. in 1 visit order to not insult the guest? That is not realistic.

HHN is a rather large event that draws people from all over the country (even some other countries). The event only runs a short period of time. You have to expect lines at an event of this magnitude. For those planning on only going just 1 night, they should realize there is a chance they won't be able to see everything. Lines are a good thing. When those lines become short, it means they are not making enough money and we don't want that to happen.

Edited March 11, 2015 by ThNdIzNiR

[Legacy]

So... using your logic, when you go to a theme park like the Magic Kingdom for example, you should be able to see every show, ride every ride, check out every store etc. in 1 visit order to not insult the guest? That is not realistic.

Not everything. Everything you want to. There's a big difference. If you legitimately think you can do everything, good on you expect disappointment.

If a person goes to HHN on a peak night with express and only cares about the IP houses, they might hit them all. If they want to see all the houses, they likely can't. That's rushing through zones, eating on the run and riding/watching nothing. And I think that's bullshit. Adding more houses MAY allow a person to catch one extra house, but it also means they're missing more.

And aside from Magic Kingdom, it's not that difficult to do everything you want in the Disney parks. Or at least it use to be.

[JDW]

The difference also being this is a limited time event that has abbreviated hours. 6-7 hours.

Last year I made it to every house... no shows, no scarezones, one bathroom break, I had the AP party so I was in the door at 5:30 (which was a ridiculous joke too), no food, and that also was with a mad dash and full out sprint from FDTD to G&G and they cut the line off behind me. I felt rushed and I felt like Expressers were the only thing that mattered to Universal. It shouldn't feel that way. I'm not going to chalk it up to "oh well the event is popular... Guess I should spend MORE money". I'm not making excuses for Universal who can't seem to get their act together and produce a fun, scary, and reasonably priced event that I can enjoy without coming the entire month. If I don't enjoy I don't go.

Hence why I seriously debated going this year. Two factors: I've gone since the beginning and it's the quarter century anniversary... and three my wife pretty much said we were going at least once more. So if I have the same experience I'm bailing and 25 years is a good place to do so.

[Arsik_22]

Also keep in mind, most of the general public that attend the event can't name all of the mazes if you asked them. A ton of people from school or work that went would tell me since they know I'm a huge fan, and Id ask what their favorite maze is. More than half of them would say "Oh the werewolf maze" or something along those lines. As long as they go see the big IPS that drawed them to the event or even just The Walking Dead maze if their a fan of the show, and a few others they'll be happy. They don't mind missing some mazes like we do.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Arsik_22

[RockinSight]

It feels so good to be back on the forums, and binge reading 68 pages has probably had some affect on me at this point. Concerning the topic of seeing everything we want to see at the event, I was pretty lucky last year. Granted, I drove 3 hours up on Opening Night (when it was pouring rain and storming), missed the opening scaremonies and the first 30 minutes I believe, and the exceptions to my luckiness were Rocky Horror, B&T, Bayou of Blood and some of Face Off; however I did see all of the houses and half of the sacredness. Also to be fair, I wasn't interested in seeing RHPS again, and I saw B&T on a different night when I could actually observe and appreciate the "atmosfear" along with my favorite houses. I even got a chance to eat at Finnegan's.

But I do see the point you guys are making, and I agree with it.I did felt rushed at times, and I heard from friends of mine that they could barely go on any of the houses on peak nights later on in the event. They could only be able to go to 1 house, 3 if they were lucky. It's true that Universal needs to get their act together on this problem, but it's not solely their problem alone. I would blame the growing GP crowds partially, but Universal could do something about that, such as adjusting routes and whatnot. As for the number of houses increasing, I don't believe that would alleviate the packed and problematic lines that make us miss our favorite houses. An extra house would just become another missed house most likely.

To be honest I believe that one of the few things that would help with this is the possibility of a two-park event. Please don't misunderstand, I'm not going straight for this because I romanticize a 2004 HHN that was okay from what I hear (with the exception of some houses). I think that the dead spaces and crazy long walks would perfectly occupy the number of people that go to this event nowadays, and hopefully this would tire out some of the GP from filling out some of the houses. In my opinion, I would care less for missing houses and scare zone as long as I had something that HHN had plenty of years ago: passion. I'm not saying that there is no passion for the event, I mean look at Halloween last year. However there are certain factors that currently restrict the passion that others felt in houses like the SS Frightanic, Screamhouse, etc. I realize that, as usual, I'm going off tangent so I'll finish by saying Uni needs to check themselves and set out to fix this problem for everyone.

[ThNdIzNiR]

This is kinda ridiculous...

From what I'm gathering here, Universal should not expand the size of the event because there would be too much for people to see in 1 night?

The people who live in Florida get discounts, can buy passes that allow them to go however many times they wish for a reasonable price even with express, and yet Universal is supposed to structure the event around a 1 night visit?

Waiting in lines sucks for us, but as long as the event is popular this is the way it goes. What other options are there? 1 potential option is to add more stuff to do (both parks), but then people will apparently still complain because they can't see everything. Oh... The event is too popular now, so because I can't see everything in 1 night on the big 25th HHN Anniversary I mine as well not go. Don't get me wrong here, everyone is entitled to their own views and choices, but c'mon... That just sounds childish to me.

I don't know... If people are that offended, don't go. If not, reach in your wallet and pay for express. If you had fun and still missed out even with express, go again. Seems simple to me. If money or kids are an issue, don't blame Universal.

Who should Universal cater to at the event?

a. A person who goes 1 night, runs through the houses (no express), doesn't drink, doesn't eat, and doesn't stop at the shops because they have no time.

or.

b. A person who buys a ffp with express, takes their time to see all the houses and shows over multiple days, drinks every night, stops and eats, buys souvenirs, etc. (bonus - if they are staying on Universal property besides)

Do the math. Why do you think the single tickets cost so much?

I wish they would just keep the event open every night until at least 2am.

[zombieman]

This is kinda ridiculous...

From what I'm gathering here, Universal should not expand the size of the event because there would be too much for people to see in 1 night?

The people who live in Florida get discounts, can buy passes that allow them to go however many times they wish for a reasonable price even with express, and yet Universal is supposed to structure the event around a 1 night visit?

Waiting in lines sucks for us, but as long as the event is popular this is the way it goes. What other options are there? 1 potential option is to add more stuff to do (both parks), but then people will apparently still complain because they can't see everything. Oh... The event is too popular now, so because I can't see everything in 1 night on the big 25th HHN Anniversary I mine as well not go. Don't get me wrong here, everyone is entitled to their own views and choices, but c'mon... That just sounds childish to me.

I don't know... If people are that offended, don't go. If not, reach in your wallet and pay for express. If you had fun and still missed out even with express, go again. Seems simple to me. If money or kids are an issue, don't blame Universal.

Who should Universal cater to at the event?

a. A person who goes 1 night, runs through the houses (no express), doesn't drink, doesn't eat, and doesn't stop at the shops because they have no time.

or.

b. A person who buys a ffp with express, takes their time to see all the houses and shows over multiple days, drinks every night, stops and eats, buys souvenirs, etc. (bonus - if they are staying on Universal property besides)

Do the math. Why do you think the single tickets cost so much?

Single tickets cost so much because the big parks cater primarily to vacationers - not locals. That's why there are so few season pass holders in Florida.

Totally different paradigm in California, where season pass holders make up the vast majority of park visitors.

The unfortunate truth is that So Cal residents are more likely to be able to afford to buy those season passes than Florida residents.

But an event like HHN (or Knott's Halloween Haunt) is going to be made up of primarily locals on both coasts. It's a slow time of the year - during the school year - so there are unlikely to be many vacationers. October would be dead in these parks were it not for Halloween events.

The locals are going to be the ones buying the FFP and will ultimately get their money's worth, even if it takes a couple of visits during the season to see everything. HHN can have 10 houses and these people would be happy with that.

Vacationers who go multiple nights would also be happy because they would eventually get to see everything.

I think the people who wouldn't get their money's worth are those who go to HHN because they heard it was great, but they make poor choices: they go on a Saturday, arrive too late, decide to do a ride or two, eat at Finnegan's, and then do only 1 house because the waits are 2 hours. They will say that the "werewolf house" was cool but HHN was a waste of money because the lines were so bad. These people will not return until their friends explain how they did everything the wrong way.

But this mini-thread is based on the predication that more things to do at HHN is always better.

To every HNN member - absolutely it is. We are HHN geeks.

To the bean counters at Universal, what is the purpose of adding more if the event is already exceeding the anticipated profit?

They want butts through the gate, Express passes sold out, empty kegs at the end of the night, stellar reviews, and no lawsuits.

If they get that with 8 houses, why add a 9th unless it would increase capacity and guarantee additional tickets sold?

If they are happy with the current event capacity then the only reason we'd see 25% more houses in a year is if Universal was counting on 25% more tickets sold that season.

That's the simple math you were talking about.

What we like and want to see matters so little, because come October, we're going no matter what.

[ThNdIzNiR]

If they are happy with the current event capacity then the only reason we'd see 25% more houses in a year is if Universal was counting on 25% more tickets sold that season.

I pretty much agree with everything you said.

What better year to attempt to sell the 25% more tickets than on the 25th anniversary with a giant 10 house, 2 park event? If they are going to do it, the time should be now.

Hopefully they can get Legendary Truth up and running too every night... oh wait, there won't be enough time to get that done too in one night right? Better scrap it.

Edited March 12, 2015 by ThNdIzNiR

[JDW]

It's not about the houses. I'm all for more houses. It's poor management of resources, crowd eating rides and shows, etc. Too many people standing in any one line. More houses is great. But if they bring in more people than the extra houses can eat it's the same problem.

[ThNdIzNiR]

It's not about the houses. I'm all for more houses. It's poor management of resources, crowd eating rides and shows, etc. Too many people standing in any one line. More houses is great. But if they bring in more people than the extra houses can eat it's the same problem.

I have to agree about managing resources. A few extra scare zones sprinkled in could even help a little with the lines. I can't even begin to imagine how many props, costumes, and set pieces they must have locked away. I remember they used to hang those little jack-o-lantern lights in the trees for a lighting effect. I'm pretty sure they don't use those anymore, or if they do, it's not in the area where I remember them. God forbid they open up the Potter Studios area. They should do whatever it takes to keep those rides open along with some of the other Islands of Adventure stuff. Instead of having just Bill & Ted and 1 other show, add a bunch of shows... Why not run Bill & Ted 2 times a night and whatever the other 1 is 2 times as well (to put on the map) and rotate a whole variety of performers on all available stages different each week. Bring in live bands to perform. I'm sure they can print a weekly schedule for guests. They had their chainsaw drill team, why not add a few other random roaming monsters/villains? Hire living statue street performers and dress them up as evil clowns or whatever else is fitting and place them in various locations to mess with people. Make LT fully functional and worth doing for everyone involved. Use the cinematic spectacular to play some horror movies on. When it's real busy and the lines are too long (2-3 hours), hand out free merch to a person here or there in the line (not express) to help boost morale. Maybe attempt to somehow decorate where the queue lines actually are. Offer more food cart variety for the people eating on the run. Possibly offer more ticket purchasing options. These are just simple things that I think could probably help out.

Until HHN goes the way of the dinosaur, there will more than likely always be at the very least 1 or 2 houses with absurd lines.

I wonder what the nightly ticket cap is, assuming there actually is one. I know they've sold out before, but I honestly can't imagine them ever actually turning away customers. Has this ever happened?

[Freak]

Also keep in mind, most of the general public that attend the event can't name all of the mazes if you asked them. A ton of people from school or work that went would tell me since they know I'm a huge fan, and Id ask what their favorite maze is. More than half of them would say "Oh the werewolf maze" or something along those lines. As long as they go see the big IPS that drawed them to the event or even just The Walking Dead maze if their a fan of the show, and a few others they'll be happy. They don't mind missing some mazes like we do.

Exactly. While aot of the guests want to see all of the houses, there are also guests who go who ate scaredy cats. Of the three nights I went, I went with a group who only did two mazes (Dracula and AWiL) and went on rides the rest of the night. They didn't care about the other mazes. Not everybody has to "do everything" to enjoy themselves. But yeah, they should increase capacity.

[HomemadeHaunt]

So... using your logic, when you go to a theme park like the Magic Kingdom (during it's busiest time of year) for example, you should be able to see every show, ride every ride, check out every store etc. in 1 visit order to not insult the guest? That is not realistic.

HHN is a rather large event that draws people from all over the country (even some other countries). The event only runs a short period of time. You have to expect lines at an event of this magnitude. For those planning on only going just 1 night, they should realize there is a chance they won't be able to see everything. Lines are a good thing. When those lines become short, it means they are not making enough money and we don't want that to happen.

Most quests who attend only one night are not too upset if they don't get to go through every house. Especially the 21-30 (or so) age group that has a hell of a time drinking "kool-aids" and being with large groups of friends. However this doesn't include everyone, so yes, it would be nice if everyone at least had the chance of seeing everything in one night. I'm not usually one to complain about prices, but we all know that for the casual guest, a $90 ticket is kind of a lot. If I spent that much to go on one night, I would expect to be able to do ALL that the event has to offer.

[Guest]

Another problem is some nights they are only open until 12

[HomemadeHaunt]

As thndiznir said, it would be nice to see them have Lagoon shows, chainsaw drill team, etc. Honestly, I wouldn't have any issue with them using the same lagoon shows from 2012. Maybe even add one more that showcases some of their best content from the past 25 years. I thoroughly enjoyed watching the 2012 lagoon shows. They were quick but very cool, and they gave me something other to do than houses and zones.

Here's another thing. I truly think that they could have some bands come and perform. Possibly by the queues. I know that this could cause some issues with space, but it might be possible. Heck, try and bring in midnight syndicate to do some of their stuff.

[Legacy]

They used to have queue performers. They did away with them after 2013.

[PeoriaBJJ]

Just for the record... I get a fast pass every year. I will see every house AT LEAST once every night Im there. Usually we will hit up our favorite house twice in the same night. Thats with all potty breaks, stopping for pizza att eh monster cafe, maybe an ice cream..... its totally possible. I dont miss ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dead Inside]

Instead of having just Bill & Ted and 1 other show, add a bunch of shows... Why not run Bill & Ted 2 times a night and whatever the other 1 is 2 times as well (to put on the map) and rotate a whole variety of performers on all available stages different each week. Bring in live bands to perform. I'm sure they can print a weekly schedule for guests. They had their chainsaw drill team, why not add a few other random roaming monsters/villains?

This is a pretty good idea and would work for stuff like RHPS. However, only having Bill and Ted twice per night would make seeing it hard, and you'd have to get there a while in advance because of the popularity. Edited March 12, 2015 by Dead Inside

[criticalanalysis]

Here's another thing. I truly think that they could have some bands come and perform. Possibly by the queues. I know that this could cause some issues with space, but it might be possible. Heck, try and bring in midnight syndicate to do some of their stuff.

No. It would not add to the atmosphere, would take up space for the queue, and only cost money. Bad idea.

Like the actors who would invite people to the house a la "Dungeon of Terror: Retold" ? Those were cool.

What benefit would the first part bring someone? No one is going to go "Oh, a free shirt! Now I don't mind this two hour house line." The latter is a better idea just for thematic reasons but I would be hesitant to throw props near the guests without supervision because they will be messed up. Leave them near the facades.

Edited March 12, 2015 by criticalanalysis

[JDW]

I would just like a show that I actually want to watch. Not that I have the time to actually see them... so I guess it doesn't matter.

But as I've been saying all along a HHN variety act. Use the icons to do different skits. (luck do a bet your life type thing, Jack do the comedy, etc.) Plus have magic, dancing, acrobats... the works. Not just some tired musical and the B&T show which is jokes I don't get because they are all meme based and music I don't listen too.

[ThNdIzNiR]

No. It would not add to the atmosphere, would take up space for the queue, and only cost money. Bad idea.

What benefit would the first part bring someone? No one is going to go "Oh, a free shirt! Now I don't mind this two hour house line." The latter is a better idea just for thematic reasons but I would be hesitant to throw props near the guests without supervision because they will be messed up. Leave them near the facades.

Do you even know who the Midnight Syndicate are?

What benefit would free stuff bring? Ummm.... The benefit of getting something for free? People get excited when they get gifts.

You don't need to have props in guest's reach to help set the mood of an area a little better. I wouldn't want (small/breakable) props in the middle of a 3 hour line either.

[ThNdIzNiR]

Just for the record... I get a fast pass every year. I will see every house AT LEAST once every night Im there. Usually we will hit up our favorite house twice in the same night. Thats with all potty breaks, stopping for pizza att eh monster cafe, maybe an ice cream..... its totally possible. I dont miss ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll top that...

Until last year, we did basically everything (no 2nd show, only B&T) you said using express. Instead of going to the Monster Cafe, we try to grab giant turkey legs and twisted taters. Generally we also stop to get drinks in between every couple houses. But here is the kicker... we wouldn't even go into the park until it was dark outside. I always thought it made more sense to do your haunted attractions when the sun was down, so there were evenings we didn't even go in until somewhere between 7:30 up to 8:30. I think the only days we didn't do every house and show were a couple of the Thursdays when we'd first landed in Florida and 1 Saturday the year we went in the middle of October (probably the busiest day we'd seen).

Edited March 12, 2015 by ThNdIzNiR

[PeoriaBJJ]

I'll top that...

Until last year, we did basically everything (no 2nd show, only B&T) you said using express. Instead of going to the Monster Cafe, we try to grab giant turkey legs and twisted taters. Generally we also stop to get drinks in between every couple houses. But here is the kicker... we wouldn't even go into the park until it was dark outside. I always thought it made more sense to do your haunted attractions when the sun was down, so there were evenings we didn't even go in until somewhere between 7:30 up to 8:30. I think the only days we didn't do every house and show were a couple of the Thursdays when we'd first landed in Florida and 1 Saturday the year we went in the middle of October (probably the busiest day we'd seen).

I forgot to say we did see B&T but not any other show that was offered. The Penny Dreadful and RHPS, etc never appealed to me in the least. So we skipped those...

And like someone said above I too miss a few of the jokes during B&T. Im 38 so some of the teeny bopper stuff goes over my graying head! LOL