HHN XXI Wishful Thinking

[Jumboshrmp]

I guess we can just agree to disagree then.

why are we complaining about roofs? sure, it would be pretty boss so you feel claustrophobic or closed in with a low roof(such as HAVOC, Catacombs and Orfanage), but i dont look up in a house. i'm looking at the scenery(if noones scaring me) or at the masks of the SA's scaring the$#!! out of me.

I'm looking at the scenery too. I'm looking all around. Some houses the lack of a roof didn't really bother me as much as others but in Legendary Truth it really completely killed the illusion that you were inside an actual house. I say this because I was one of the ones complaining about the lack of roofs the most.

also, for the crowd control idea, i'm 14, and i've been going to the event every year since i was 9, so i would suggest a 13 and up only age limit, but then those people like i was that aren't 13 yet won't be able to experience it.

While Universal does want to keep crowds controlled to keep their guests happy so they come back, they don't want to tell people who are willing to pay that they can't. The event is not recommended for children under 13 but every kid is different and some can handle it.

an adults only night on a sunday during the event would be smart, but definitely NOT on a friday or saturday, or the thursdays with no school the next day.

This certainly isn't a kid's event, but it's a theme park. Families go to theme parks. Where would you say they should set the limit? 18? 21? A lot of people would be pretty upset if they came to Universal for one day and that day happened to be a day that it was "adult only night"

alcohol is defenitely a major problem with the raging alcheys running around the park, stopping the line movement in the houses and causing fights. they should have about 10 bar stands instead of 25.

While the alcohol debate is an entirely different story, I don't think limiting the number of bar stands would stop those who were determined to get alcohol. It would just make those lines even longer and possibly make some angry drunks.

the front gate, i wouldn't know. i always get there around 5:30 and in the front of the line, so i can't complain about that. what happened in front of there in the past years that make it such a problem?

I agree with you on this. People complained that this year's archway decorations were nonexistant. I say who cares! Get in the park before the event starts and don't wait outside.

the stage overlooking the LT queue would be good an bad. good for the entertainment, bad because maybe you could hear it in the ss's, or are they soundproof?

I'm guessing that based on their name, they are pretty well suited to keeping sound out...

But if they had a show there, where would they put the queue for Soundstage 20?

and i would rather just themed streets w/o SA's because the SA's in the SZ's aren't the best. i never get scared in them(besidesTYOF this year). they should save money and just theme areas and make a 9th house!

Now this I 100% disagree with you on. I think that the actors in the streets are some of the best actors in the entire event! No offense is intended to any of the amazing actors who have worked in houses, but actors in a house really only have time to jump out at you or do a few things over and over before hiding back in their boohole. Actors in the streets have to constantly stay in character because they are always being watched. Many of them will interact and talk with the guests for a very long time and stay in character the entire time. Besides, when the lines for houses get long, do you want to hang out in empty streets that are amazingly themed?

Yeah, I guess that was a bit of a rant, and not really even on topic for this thread, but I has some strong opinions about your post

[orlandinorules56]

Yeah, I guess that was a bit of a rant, and not really even on topic for this thread, but I has some strong opinions about your post

go ahead. rant away! your opinion is as good as mine. everyone's entitled to it. and for the concert and queue for SS20, keep the line in the same place. the concert is to entertain the people waiting in line to get into a music-themed house, not for people to come and watch the concert. and the thing about angry drunks for less bar stands is also very true. same with the adults only night. i guess some things i said were very arguable.

[LV-426]

I guess we can just agree to disagree then.

I'm looking at the scenery too. I'm looking all around. Some houses the lack of a roof didn't really bother me as much as others but in Legendary Truth it really completely killed the illusion that you were inside an actual house. I say this because I was one of the ones complaining about the lack of roofs the most.

While Universal does want to keep crowds controlled to keep their guests happy so they come back, they don't want to tell people who are willing to pay that they can't. The event is not recommended for children under 13 but every kid is different and some can handle it.

This certainly isn't a kid's event, but it's a theme park. Families go to theme parks. Where would you say they should set the limit? 18? 21? A lot of people would be pretty upset if they came to Universal for one day and that day happened to be a day that it was "adult only night"

While the alcohol debate is an entirely different story, I don't think limiting the number of bar stands would stop those who were determined to get alcohol. It would just make those lines even longer and possibly make some angry drunks.

I agree with you on this. People complained that this year's archway decorations were nonexistant. I say who cares! Get in the park before the event starts and don't wait outside.

I'm guessing that based on their name, they are pretty well suited to keeping sound out...

But if they had a show there, where would they put the queue for Soundstage 20?

Now this I 100% disagree with you on. I think that the actors in the streets are some of the best actors in the entire event! No offense is intended to any of the amazing actors who have worked in houses, but actors in a house really only have time to jump out at you or do a few things over and over before hiding back in their boohole. Actors in the streets have to constantly stay in character because they are always being watched. Many of them will interact and talk with the guests for a very long time and stay in character the entire time. Besides, when the lines for houses get long, do you want to hang out in empty streets that are amazingly themed?

Yeah, I guess that was a bit of a rant, and not really even on topic for this thread, but I has some strong opinions about your post

Totally agree with everything, so instead of answering orladinorulez I just say that I agree with you on everything.

To Dinorulez I would say that, I don't know if you just go one day to the event, and I know The general Public doesn't give a crap about the roofs so I can understand why you would find that weird, But fans that like to look at all the detail, it really kills it when you have to see a sound stage roof , kills it totally kills the atmosphere, specially when you have a frequent fear pass and you go to a house over and over and start to notice all the small details, I would really like roofs for all houses, like I said before a very small thing to fix but, I know that it will improve the houses greatly

[armyofrobots]

and i would rather just themed streets w/o SA's because the SA's in the SZ's aren't the best. i never get scared in them(besidesTYOF this year). they should save money and just theme areas and make a 9th house!

whhhhhooooaaaaaaaa.... hold onto your hat. You're gonna get some flack for that one.

Edited December 19, 2010 by armyofrobots

[Freak]

I have an idea on how they could use that stage while still having the queue. I have a heavy metal band concept for a house in my mind. We could have the members of the band be the icons and they could put on a concert for their " die hard" fans. The scarezone area where EM was this year would be like an area for groupies, guitar techs and crazy fans to scare guests and they could be selling the bands merch. While in line the guests can enjoy the concert and when they enter the house they enter the studio where the band records but the band goes crazy and kills the producer and just demolishes the studio. I know it's kind of like the myX concept at HOS this year but I wasn't really a fan of the way they executed it. What do you guys think?

I think this would be a cool idea, but the only thing is that it would sound too familiar with MyX. Based off of an idea that was used at HHNH in 1999, I guess it could be that Rob Zombie is having a concert at HHN (Though this may sound more suited for Hollywood) and we see an actor performing RZ's songs in front of everybody while waiting in line. Once everybody goes inside his recording studio, guests will see all of the destruction and havoc inside that his evil mind has caused. After we go through the recording studio, we would enter through a vortex and into the world of his fiendish mind. We would travel through some of his movies (ala All-Nite Die-In) such as Halloween, House of 1,000 Corpses, and through verious other realms of his mind. That's how I'd do it.

[Jeffrey Goldman]

This is what I would like to see in the future!

My link

[The Director of Horror]

I think this would be a cool idea, but the only thing is that it would sound too familiar with MyX. Based off of an idea that was used at HHNH in 1999, I guess it could be that Rob Zombie is having a concert at HHN (Though this may sound more suited for Hollywood) and we see an actor performing RZ's songs in front of everybody while waiting in line. Once everybody goes inside his recording studio, guests will see all of the destruction and havoc inside that his evil mind has caused. After we go through the recording studio, we would enter through a vortex and into the world of his fiendish mind. We would travel through some of his movies (ala All-Nite Die-In) such as Halloween, House of 1,000 Corpses, and through verious other realms of his mind. That's how I'd do it.

I actually kida like hat idea. It wouldn't fit with Orlando, but I could see it in Hollywood.

[Jeffrey Goldman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVMtbIqLajs

[HORRORLANDO]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVMtbIqLajs

Perhaps, The possibilities for 2011 are endless..

[Mae]

the front gate, i wouldn't know. i always get there around 5:30 and in the front of the line, so i can't complain about that. what happened in front of there in the past years that make it such a problem?

Read the Rant thread to hear some stories about front gate security this year. There are some doozies.

As far as waiting in line, there were more things to hold your interest prior to 2005 or 2006 (although 2007 did look better). If i can ever get all of our videos online I can show you guys. Sure, some of it was silly but it was good fun and helped set the mood.

Mae

[LV-426]

I have an idea on how they could use that stage while still having the queue. I have a heavy metal band concept for a house in my mind. We could have the members of the band be the icons and they could put on a concert for their " die hard" fans. The scarezone area where EM was this year would be like an area for groupies, guitar techs and crazy fans to scare guests and they could be selling the bands merch. While in line the guests can enjoy the concert and when they enter the house they enter the studio where the band records but the band goes crazy and kills the producer and just demolishes the studio. I know it's kind of like the myX concept at HOS this year but I wasn't really a fan of the way they executed it. What do you guys think?

I think this would be a cool idea, but the only thing is that it would sound too familiar with MyX. Based off of an idea that was used at HHNH in 1999, I guess it could be that Rob Zombie is having a concert at HHN (Though this may sound more suited for Hollywood) and we see an actor performing RZ's songs in front of everybody while waiting in line. Once everybody goes inside his recording studio, guests will see all of the destruction and havoc inside that his evil mind has caused. After we go through the recording studio, we would enter through a vortex and into the world of his fiendish mind. We would travel through some of his movies (ala All-Nite Die-In) such as Halloween, House of 1,000 Corpses, and through verious other realms of his mind. That's how I'd do it.

yeah I actually thought about something like this before, but, the only way it wouldn't look cheesy is if they did it with a hardcore band, or a scary band, some death metal or something, Rob zombie would be a good idea, even Slipknot would be fine, the problem is that to appeal to the general public they would do something like linkin park or something, but, if they did it with a black metal band, it would be scary and not look cheesy, the problem is that very few people like this type of music. They could always make the band up, since you are suggesting a concert for people waiting in line, I would love to see a metal band with violins, but scary

Edited December 19, 2010 by black7mask

[killswitch22]

yeah I actually thought about something like this before, but, the only way it wouldn't look cheesy is if they did it with a hardcore band, or a scary band, some death metal or something, Rob zombie would be a good idea, even Slipknot would be fine, the problem is that to appeal to the general public they would do something like linkin park or something, but, if they did it with a black metal band, it would be scary and not look cheesy, the problem is that very few people like this type of music. They could always make the band up, since you are suggesting a concert for people waiting in line, I would love to see a metal band with violins, but scary

I see where your going with this. I was thinking more of an original band rather than something that already exists like Rob Zombie. Slipknot would be cool but It might be weird now that the bass player is dead. I was thinkin of a band that player music that sounded like Whitechapel or Oceano. Something brutal but not absolutely intolerable. I understand about how it's not everyones cup of tea but it would make the most sense for a Halloween event.

[Freak]

yeah I actually thought about something like this before, but, the only way it wouldn't look cheesy is if they did it with a hardcore band, or a scary band, some death metal or something, Rob zombie would be a good idea, even Slipknot would be fine, the problem is that to appeal to the general public they would do something like linkin park or something, but, if they did it with a black metal band, it would be scary and not look cheesy, the problem is that very few people like this type of music. They could always make the band up, since you are suggesting a concert for people waiting in line, I would love to see a metal band with violins, but scary

Slipknot would be interesting. Maybe Dimmu Borgir would be a better fit for this sort of thing....but going to UO to see the Dimmu Borgir house or Slipknot house just doesn't sound...Universal. I'm seeing it like this:

"This year only at Halloween Horror Nights XXI, see Death reign over Universal Studios with SlipKnoT: The Ghost of Paul Grey's Revenge!"

It just doesn't sound very....um....HHN-ish to me. Maaaaaaybe Hollywood but more HOS-ish to me.

[Fallow]

My wishful thinking for this year's HHN...

-A new "The Thing" haunted house. I know, I know - new age of darkness, no movies, new ideas - but The Thing does come out in early Spring I believe, so I bet the DVD timing would be perfect. The Thing also provides some great opportunities for innovating scaring (via puppets and otherwise), if the original 2007 house was any indication. I'd say this is probably the most likely thing to happen on this list...

-Better security at the front gate. I don't think I need to really elaborate on this as plenty of others have - I never had an issue, but some friends did. Third parties and Universal MUST communicate and be 100% in sync with each other or serious problems are going to happen.

-A NEW human icon with FULL MARKETING & MERCHANDISING SUPPORT. Please, give us another Jack, Caretaker, Director, Mary, or Usher - we need a human icon we can interact with, that can appear in houses and zones, and can be seen on ads everywhere. Enough of the abstract "consumed by Fear" imagery or the "here's the 3 movie icons we got this year" ads. If HHN wants more icons to add to its roster, it has to do it properly. And once you've established an icon and exploited him/her via merchandise and ads, actually USE him/her in the parks - please no FEAR redo, we want to actually be FRIGHTENED by our icon. Give him/her a house, and if possible, a photo op or zone.

-An overarching theme, which was sadly absent last year. Twenty Years of Fear was weak, and the overall event last year lacked an identity. Reflections of Fear, Carnival of Carnage, Sweet 16, Ripped From the Silver Screen - those were all memorable and had true identities, with backstories that effectively tied everything together. Exploit it on the website, on the merchandise, and in the parks. Immerse us in a new icon's world. Just being in "Universal Studios with some freaky attractions" is nowhere near as fun.

-A new house location or zone or show. I'd imagine a new zone is most likely, but it feels as if the lineup has gotten just slightly stagnant in previous years - we need a new additional zone space to round out the park, or even more ideally, a new house to consume crowds. The lines have gotten out of control and more outlets are needed. A third show, featuring our (hopefully) new icon, would be great - Jacked Up and The Arrival seemed like fantastic diversions that gave the crowd what they wanted (the icon they saw in the ads) as well as setting the mood for the night.

-The removal of the excess of third party vendors throughout the park. I don't mean the temporary food carts, the tattoos, or even the cheesy palm readers - no, I'm talking about those obnoxiously loud flashing t-shirt stalls. HHN music is deliberately turned OFF in areas where they are (of which there are many) so some random top 40 song can be played, showing off the shirt's capabilities. Show off the shirts in the back half of Production Central with the bright, shitty midway games (which I won't even bother to request their removal, since I know they won't leave), but please, nowhere else. It was so disheartening to leave Zombie Gras and to have the atmosphere built up instantly dissolve to Rihanna and some crappy flashy shirts. Ditto with the exits of Escueleto and the Central Park Jack-O-Lanterns. Absolutely ridiculous.

-Kill this whole "you are always the victim" idea. I think it's a good thought, but ultimately it leaves something to be desired - namely, gore, and the idea that any of these things can actually harm you. 2009's soundstage houses were extremely cinematic - you had Frankenstein, Wolfman, and Dracula, all of which had mini "show" elements (heart-tear, wolf transformation, sawing of leg, etc.). These show elements are a big part of what puts HHN above other haunted houses across the nation. Hades was just a bunch of costumes popping out - which can be scary, yes, and the costumes were mostly good (the sets & atmosphere meh), but there were no show elements, no human victims of any kind being murdered. Why should I be scared, then? They can't hurt me... Same thing with Psychoscareapy & Legendary Truth. Also return of plots, please. Wolfman was more of a cinematic retelling of the film we hadn't seen yet, but Dracula & Frankenstein definitely had plot arcs. Zombiegeddon had a plot arc this year but sadly lacked a proper finale. Catacombs was the only house this year to have a true plot and finish it. More, please.

-Proper finales. The finales this year were kind of pathetic. WTH was going on with Legendary Truth? Psychoscareapy's lacked any real intensity. Hades was a joke. Zombiegeddon was a fine mid-house room, but as a finale, it was weak. Orfanage's would've been better with more "smoke", but with some good timing you got a decent finale. Havoc had an inferior copy of Spawning's. Catacombs finale was solid. Hallow'd Past was bad. Really, all of them just kind of fizzled (and that's just not my opinion - the friends I brought who had only attended in 09 previously agreed vehemently). Give me a reason to RUN out of the house. Provide closure to the plot and then give me everything you've got, scare the shit out of me. Save the best for last.

-Roofs over the houses. It seems like such an easy thing. It was clearly done in 2009, why it was avoided this year is beyond me. It ruined certain rooms and killed immersion in others. I even heard general public members commenting on how "all the houses seemed to be in the same building" (upon exiting Hades), going on to note "if you look up you see it's one big warehouse". Not good, people. Exceptions are of course made for certain instances like the floating actors, which brings me to...

-More "special" scares. By this I mean special effects, puppets, mechanics, surprises. Everyone's expecting actors to jump out at you. Surprise us. Legendary Truth had a few of these but ultimately disappointed. Where were the floating actors? The crazy puppets (especially in Hades, no Cerberus!?)? I guess they planned for a banshee special effect in that house, but it failed for some reason and was abandoned. Pity.

-A real backstory website. No Legendary Truth - the effort nice, but overall it was weak, and led to a stillborn actual investigation. I know, I know - the general public finds it confusing. I don't really get this complaint - the backstory website is established months and months before the actual event, long before any member of the general public would casually go to the site to buy tickets. Have the "launch" site have basic information but more substantial backstory for those that want to look for it. Before the core site launches, give us a cool backstory like the Universal Palace, the Carnival of Carnage, or Mary's Journals. Universal used to win awards for their websites - don't let that superior standard slip away.

-Control over the amount of "ops". Didn't encounter a single good op the entire event. Not a single one. They were always distracting, annoying, and/or rude. Stop telling me to move forward, I'll go at my own damn pace. The flashlights are absolutely ridiculous. Give them the hoods that were tested in Catacombs - that might help. But even hoods aren't going to help the attitudes that most of the ops seem to have. Something needs to change with that, or the houses are going to be far less "appreciate the incredible worlds A&D have built and get scared shitless" and much more "gogogo as fast as you can through a claustrophobic warehouse".

If all of that was done, I'd be an extremely happy camper. They aren't unreasonable requests - they accomplished almost all of it in 08 and 09. For some reason, 10 had a sharp decline in these standards. Is it because Michael Roddy was no longer around to keep things in check? I sincerely hope not, because if it was, and they don't realize that the quality dropped (which I feel like they won't, since supposedly XX was the "best reviewed HHN"), then we're probably just going to get more of the same - a dumbed down event. :/

[killswitch22]

My wishful thinking for this year's HHN...

-A new "The Thing" haunted house. I know, I know - new age of darkness, no movies, new ideas - but The Thing does come out in early Spring I believe, so I bet the DVD timing would be perfect. The Thing also provides some great opportunities for innovating scaring (via puppets and otherwise), if the original 2007 house was any indication. I'd say this is probably the most likely thing to happen on this list...

-Better security at the front gate. I don't think I need to really elaborate on this as plenty of others have - I never had an issue, but some friends did. Third parties and Universal MUST communicate and be 100% in sync with each other or serious problems are going to happen.

-A NEW human icon with FULL MARKETING & MERCHANDISING SUPPORT. Please, give us another Jack, Caretaker, Director, Mary, or Usher - we need a human icon we can interact with, that can appear in houses and zones, and can be seen on ads everywhere. Enough of the abstract "consumed by Fear" imagery or the "here's the 3 movie icons we got this year" ads. If HHN wants more icons to add to its roster, it has to do it properly. And once you've established an icon and exploited him/her via merchandise and ads, actually USE him/her in the parks - please no FEAR redo, we want to actually be FRIGHTENED by our icon. Give him/her a house, and if possible, a photo op or zone.

-An overarching theme, which was sadly absent last year. Twenty Years of Fear was weak, and the overall event last year lacked an identity. Reflections of Fear, Carnival of Carnage, Sweet 16, Ripped From the Silver Screen - those were all memorable and had true identities, with backstories that effectively tied everything together. Exploit it on the website, on the merchandise, and in the parks. Immerse us in a new icon's world. Just being in "Universal Studios with some freaky attractions" is nowhere near as fun.

-A new house location or zone or show. I'd imagine a new zone is most likely, but it feels as if the lineup has gotten just slightly stagnant in previous years - we need a new additional zone space to round out the park, or even more ideally, a new house to consume crowds. The lines have gotten out of control and more outlets are needed. A third show, featuring our (hopefully) new icon, would be great - Jacked Up and The Arrival seemed like fantastic diversions that gave the crowd what they wanted (the icon they saw in the ads) as well as setting the mood for the night.

-The removal of the excess of third party vendors throughout the park. I don't mean the temporary food carts, the tattoos, or even the cheesy palm readers - no, I'm talking about those obnoxiously loud flashing t-shirt stalls. HHN music is deliberately turned OFF in areas where they are (of which there are many) so some random top 40 song can be played, showing off the shirt's capabilities. Show off the shirts in the back half of Production Central with the bright, shitty midway games (which I won't even bother to request their removal, since I know they won't leave), but please, nowhere else. It was so disheartening to leave Zombie Gras and to have the atmosphere built up instantly dissolve to Rihanna and some crappy flashy shirts. Ditto with the exits of Escueleto and the Central Park Jack-O-Lanterns. Absolutely ridiculous.

-Kill this whole "you are always the victim" idea. I think it's a good thought, but ultimately it leaves something to be desired - namely, gore, and the idea that any of these things can actually harm you. 2009's soundstage houses were extremely cinematic - you had Frankenstein, Wolfman, and Dracula, all of which had mini "show" elements (heart-tear, wolf transformation, sawing of leg, etc.). These show elements are a big part of what puts HHN above other haunted houses across the nation. Hades was just a bunch of costumes popping out - which can be scary, yes, and the costumes were mostly good (the sets & atmosphere meh), but there were no show elements, no human victims of any kind being murdered. Why should I be scared, then? They can't hurt me... Same thing with Psychoscareapy & Legendary Truth. Also return of plots, please. Wolfman was more of a cinematic retelling of the film we hadn't seen yet, but Dracula & Frankenstein definitely had plot arcs. Zombiegeddon had a plot arc this year but sadly lacked a proper finale. Catacombs was the only house this year to have a true plot and finish it. More, please.

-Proper finales. The finales this year were kind of pathetic. WTH was going on with Legendary Truth? Psychoscareapy's lacked any real intensity. Hades was a joke. Zombiegeddon was a fine mid-house room, but as a finale, it was weak. Orfanage's would've been better with more "smoke", but with some good timing you got a decent finale. Havoc had an inferior copy of Spawning's. Catacombs finale was solid. Hallow'd Past was bad. Really, all of them just kind of fizzled (and that's just not my opinion - the friends I brought who had only attended in 09 previously agreed vehemently). Give me a reason to RUN out of the house. Provide closure to the plot and then give me everything you've got, scare the shit out of me. Save the best for last.

-Roofs over the houses. It seems like such an easy thing. It was clearly done in 2009, why it was avoided this year is beyond me. It ruined certain rooms and killed immersion in others. I even heard general public members commenting on how "all the houses seemed to be in the same building" (upon exiting Hades), going on to note "if you look up you see it's one big warehouse". Not good, people. Exceptions are of course made for certain instances like the floating actors, which brings me to...

-More "special" scares. By this I mean special effects, puppets, mechanics, surprises. Everyone's expecting actors to jump out at you. Surprise us. Legendary Truth had a few of these but ultimately disappointed. Where were the floating actors? The crazy puppets (especially in Hades, no Cerberus!?)? I guess they planned for a banshee special effect in that house, but it failed for some reason and was abandoned. Pity.

-A real backstory website. No Legendary Truth - the effort nice, but overall it was weak, and led to a stillborn actual investigation. I know, I know - the general public finds it confusing. I don't really get this complaint - the backstory website is established months and months before the actual event, long before any member of the general public would casually go to the site to buy tickets. Have the "launch" site have basic information but more substantial backstory for those that want to look for it. Before the core site launches, give us a cool backstory like the Universal Palace, the Carnival of Carnage, or Mary's Journals. Universal used to win awards for their websites - don't let that superior standard slip away.

-Control over the amount of "ops". Didn't encounter a single good op the entire event. Not a single one. They were always distracting, annoying, and/or rude. Stop telling me to move forward, I'll go at my own damn pace. The flashlights are absolutely ridiculous. Give them the hoods that were tested in Catacombs - that might help. But even hoods aren't going to help the attitudes that most of the ops seem to have. Something needs to change with that, or the houses are going to be far less "appreciate the incredible worlds A&D have built and get scared shitless" and much more "gogogo as fast as you can through a claustrophobic warehouse".

If all of that was done, I'd be an extremely happy camper. They aren't unreasonable requests - they accomplished almost all of it in 08 and 09. For some reason, 10 had a sharp decline in these standards. Is it because Michael Roddy was no longer around to keep things in check? I sincerely hope not, because if it was, and they don't realize that the quality dropped (which I feel like they won't, since supposedly XX was the "best reviewed HHN"), then we're probably just going to get more of the same - a dumbed down event. :/

I absolutly agree with you on a lot of these things, especially the bit about the finales. I remember last year the finales literally has me running out of the house. This year not so much. I also agree with the human icons. I find it more scary when something real is scaring you rather than whatever creature fear was supposed to be. Good thoughts and like you, I hope to see these changes.

[traveller]

Slipknot would be interesting. Maybe Dimmu Borgir would be a better fit for this sort of thing....but going to UO to see the Dimmu Borgir house or Slipknot house just doesn't sound...Universal. I'm seeing it like this:

"This year only at Halloween Horror Nights XXI, see Death reign over Universal Studios with SlipKnoT: The Ghost of Paul Grey's Revenge!"

It just doesn't sound very....um....HHN-ish to me. Maaaaaaybe Hollywood but more HOS-ish to me.

I have thought about this too. but booking a band to play for the entire run would be costly. but having a stage set like demon cantina

with Tito & tarantula playing would be over the top.

[The Director of Horror]

^ I agree with your post Fallow (for the most part)

Yes, new human icon.

Yes, an overarching theme.

Yes, the removal of the third-party vendors.

Yes, kill the "you are the victim".

Yes, proper finale.

Yes, roofs (where possible, due to fire hazard)

Yes, special scares and gags.

No, new locations (I think they've finally figured it out (no Kidzone zone).

Ops will be ops.

I want an origins/traditions/history of Halloween theme!!!!!!! (pretty please A&D... )

Edited December 20, 2010 by The Director of Horror

[Creeper06]

My wishful thinking for this year's HHN...

-A new "The Thing" haunted house. I know, I know - new age of darkness, no movies, new ideas - but The Thing does come out in early Spring I believe, so I bet the DVD timing would be perfect. The Thing also provides some great opportunities for innovating scaring (via puppets and otherwise), if the original 2007 house was any indication. I'd say this is probably the most likely thing to happen on this list...

-Better security at the front gate. I don't think I need to really elaborate on this as plenty of others have - I never had an issue, but some friends did. Third parties and Universal MUST communicate and be 100% in sync with each other or serious problems are going to happen.

-A NEW human icon with FULL MARKETING & MERCHANDISING SUPPORT. Please, give us another Jack, Caretaker, Director, Mary, or Usher - we need a human icon we can interact with, that can appear in houses and zones, and can be seen on ads everywhere. Enough of the abstract "consumed by Fear" imagery or the "here's the 3 movie icons we got this year" ads. If HHN wants more icons to add to its roster, it has to do it properly. And once you've established an icon and exploited him/her via merchandise and ads, actually USE him/her in the parks - please no FEAR redo, we want to actually be FRIGHTENED by our icon. Give him/her a house, and if possible, a photo op or zone.

-An overarching theme, which was sadly absent last year. Twenty Years of Fear was weak, and the overall event last year lacked an identity. Reflections of Fear, Carnival of Carnage, Sweet 16, Ripped From the Silver Screen - those were all memorable and had true identities, with backstories that effectively tied everything together. Exploit it on the website, on the merchandise, and in the parks. Immerse us in a new icon's world. Just being in "Universal Studios with some freaky attractions" is nowhere near as fun.

-A new house location or zone or show. I'd imagine a new zone is most likely, but it feels as if the lineup has gotten just slightly stagnant in previous years - we need a new additional zone space to round out the park, or even more ideally, a new house to consume crowds. The lines have gotten out of control and more outlets are needed. A third show, featuring our (hopefully) new icon, would be great - Jacked Up and The Arrival seemed like fantastic diversions that gave the crowd what they wanted (the icon they saw in the ads) as well as setting the mood for the night.

-The removal of the excess of third party vendors throughout the park. I don't mean the temporary food carts, the tattoos, or even the cheesy palm readers - no, I'm talking about those obnoxiously loud flashing t-shirt stalls. HHN music is deliberately turned OFF in areas where they are (of which there are many) so some random top 40 song can be played, showing off the shirt's capabilities. Show off the shirts in the back half of Production Central with the bright, shitty midway games (which I won't even bother to request their removal, since I know they won't leave), but please, nowhere else. It was so disheartening to leave Zombie Gras and to have the atmosphere built up instantly dissolve to Rihanna and some crappy flashy shirts. Ditto with the exits of Escueleto and the Central Park Jack-O-Lanterns. Absolutely ridiculous.

-Kill this whole "you are always the victim" idea. I think it's a good thought, but ultimately it leaves something to be desired - namely, gore, and the idea that any of these things can actually harm you. 2009's soundstage houses were extremely cinematic - you had Frankenstein, Wolfman, and Dracula, all of which had mini "show" elements (heart-tear, wolf transformation, sawing of leg, etc.). These show elements are a big part of what puts HHN above other haunted houses across the nation. Hades was just a bunch of costumes popping out - which can be scary, yes, and the costumes were mostly good (the sets & atmosphere meh), but there were no show elements, no human victims of any kind being murdered. Why should I be scared, then? They can't hurt me... Same thing with Psychoscareapy & Legendary Truth. Also return of plots, please. Wolfman was more of a cinematic retelling of the film we hadn't seen yet, but Dracula & Frankenstein definitely had plot arcs. Zombiegeddon had a plot arc this year but sadly lacked a proper finale. Catacombs was the only house this year to have a true plot and finish it. More, please.

-Proper finales. The finales this year were kind of pathetic. WTH was going on with Legendary Truth? Psychoscareapy's lacked any real intensity. Hades was a joke. Zombiegeddon was a fine mid-house room, but as a finale, it was weak. Orfanage's would've been better with more "smoke", but with some good timing you got a decent finale. Havoc had an inferior copy of Spawning's. Catacombs finale was solid. Hallow'd Past was bad. Really, all of them just kind of fizzled (and that's just not my opinion - the friends I brought who had only attended in 09 previously agreed vehemently). Give me a reason to RUN out of the house. Provide closure to the plot and then give me everything you've got, scare the shit out of me. Save the best for last.

-Roofs over the houses. It seems like such an easy thing. It was clearly done in 2009, why it was avoided this year is beyond me. It ruined certain rooms and killed immersion in others. I even heard general public members commenting on how "all the houses seemed to be in the same building" (upon exiting Hades), going on to note "if you look up you see it's one big warehouse". Not good, people. Exceptions are of course made for certain instances like the floating actors, which brings me to...

-More "special" scares. By this I mean special effects, puppets, mechanics, surprises. Everyone's expecting actors to jump out at you. Surprise us. Legendary Truth had a few of these but ultimately disappointed. Where were the floating actors? The crazy puppets (especially in Hades, no Cerberus!?)? I guess they planned for a banshee special effect in that house, but it failed for some reason and was abandoned. Pity.

-A real backstory website. No Legendary Truth - the effort nice, but overall it was weak, and led to a stillborn actual investigation. I know, I know - the general public finds it confusing. I don't really get this complaint - the backstory website is established months and months before the actual event, long before any member of the general public would casually go to the site to buy tickets. Have the "launch" site have basic information but more substantial backstory for those that want to look for it. Before the core site launches, give us a cool backstory like the Universal Palace, the Carnival of Carnage, or Mary's Journals. Universal used to win awards for their websites - don't let that superior standard slip away.

-Control over the amount of "ops". Didn't encounter a single good op the entire event. Not a single one. They were always distracting, annoying, and/or rude. Stop telling me to move forward, I'll go at my own damn pace. The flashlights are absolutely ridiculous. Give them the hoods that were tested in Catacombs - that might help. But even hoods aren't going to help the attitudes that most of the ops seem to have. Something needs to change with that, or the houses are going to be far less "appreciate the incredible worlds A&D have built and get scared shitless" and much more "gogogo as fast as you can through a claustrophobic warehouse".

If all of that was done, I'd be an extremely happy camper. They aren't unreasonable requests - they accomplished almost all of it in 08 and 09. For some reason, 10 had a sharp decline in these standards. Is it because Michael Roddy was no longer around to keep things in check? I sincerely hope not, because if it was, and they don't realize that the quality dropped (which I feel like they won't, since supposedly XX was the "best reviewed HHN"), then we're probably just going to get more of the same - a dumbed down event. :/

Very thorough and well thought out feedback here. Cheers!

Too much to go into it all individually but I definitely agree about finales. Those were so strong in 08 and 09 and then, this year, seemed nonexistent. What a shame.

And, I've discussed it before, but I don't think the failure of FEAR had to do with him being a creature and not human. It had to do with them keeping him in the shadows too much in advertising, merchandise, the website, etc. Guests just didn't know who the heck he was when they got to the park. And then, once in the park, you could only see him in one place! Just a sad mishandling of what could have been an awesome icon.

Well done, Fallow.

[Fallow]

Very thorough and well thought out feedback here. Cheers!

Too much to go into it all individually but I definitely agree about finales. Those were so strong in 08 and 09 and then, this year, seemed nonexistent. What a shame.

And, I've discussed it before, but I don't think the failure of FEAR had to do with him being a creature and not human. It had to do with them keeping him in the shadows too much in advertising, merchandise, the website, etc. Guests just didn't know who the heck he was when they got to the park. And then, once in the park, you could only see him in one place! Just a sad mishandling of what could have been an awesome icon.

Well done, Fallow.

Thank you. I'd like to note that I agree FEAR didn't fail because of just the creature aspect - the reason I stipulate a human icon is because the costume isn't as cumbersome (FEAR was only available for 30 minute sets due to this, apparently), and more importantly, the character can speak and interact with guests. FEAR was confined to waving his arms at the prerecorded cheesy dialogue we'd all heard before. Absolutely nothing new was learned about him once at the park. In addition, he failed due to being one-dimensional, having no real personality, backstory or character, having no true exposure to the general public in the form of advertisements (the Cloverfield approach does not work with this type of medium), and almost no role in the final event. If he'd at least had a show or something in which he'd brought forth the icons and killed a few people I think this discussion would be quite different. But we never even saw FEAR kill anyone (except maybe that one security guard)? We had no idea what he was capable of, who he was, where he came from, etc... Hell, even The Storyteller had a better role in 05, with her image plastered everywhere, her (admittedly weak, but existing) backstory being known, and her appearance to SCARE people in Where Evil Hides. Now that FEAR was "revealed", absolutely nothing has changed, except for a more mediocre event. Maybe that's what I'm supposed to fear?

[LV-426]

I see where your going with this. I was thinking more of an original band rather than something that already exists like Rob Zombie. Slipknot would be cool but It might be weird now that the bass player is dead. I was thinkin of a band that player music that sounded like Whitechapel or Oceano. Something brutal but not absolutely intolerable. I understand about how it's not everyones cup of tea but it would make the most sense for a Halloween event.

Woah I never heard of those bands. Pretty good, I checked Oceano 'District Of Misery" song and they have some pretty cool creepy guitars and sounds, you got what i meant by having a brutal and creepy band, I think if they did this for HHN the singing would have to be more like the way jack or the caretaker speak, very low but not growls, I could see the public complaining,

I also think the band could have some face paint, like king diamond, or Cradle of Filth, Dimmu Borgir, the music could be more soft though.

about the slipknot bassist, yeah totally didn't think about that, I was thinking more of the masks, Mushroomhead also has really cool masks, or Gwar, see if the did something like Gwar it could be halloween themed, not the music but the looks.

Also I was thinking, the storyline could be that the band sold their soul to the devil, or that the band does sacrifices for the devil, so if it was a house we could see the band killing their fans in ceremonies or something, HOS' idea had so much potential... the whole "my X" was okay but, it could have been so much more, The problem is that if HHN does anything like this people will only say is a rip off from the HOS idea...

Edited December 21, 2010 by black7mask

[killswitch22]

Woah I never heard of those bands. Pretty good, I checked Oceano 'District Of Misery" song and they have some pretty cool creepy guitars and sounds, you got what i meant by having a brutal and creepy band, I think if they did this for HHN the singing would have to be more like the way jack or the caretaker speak, very low but not growls, I could see the public complaining,

I also think the band could have some face paint, like king diamond, or Cradle of Filth, Dimmu Borgir, the music could be more soft though.

about the slipknot bassist, yeah totally didn't think about that, I was thinking more of the masks, Mushroomhead also has really cool masks, or Gwar, see if the did something like Gwar it could be halloween themed, not the music but the looks.

Also I was thinking, the storyline could be that the band sold their soul to the devil, or that the band does sacrifices for the devil, so if it was a house we could see the band killing their fans in ceremonies or something, HOS' idea had so much potential... the whole "my X" was okay but, it could have been so much more, The problem is that if HHN does anything like this people will only say is a rip off from the HOS idea...

Like a rammstein type of growl? I like the concept where they're sacrificing their fans. I see that working very well. But I'm still hesitant on the bands with masks. The face paint makes sense if they are one of those bands that sacrifices things but I think their faces can make more of an impact than a mask.

[2face bng]

see i totally agree, fear should have at least had a house called consumed or something along those lines. and a band playing at hhn would be cool but due to some of the younger crowd it would be extreamly hard to find an editable band/artist that really expresses horror. being a horror core artist myself, id like to see some real horror based music weather it be ICP Twizted king gordy psycho jesus gwar ect would be cool but artist like that usually wont edit live music. even slipknot / as crappy as they are now <{old school maggot} wont do that so getting a band would be harder than usual. but yes i agree that even if they decide to do Fate or something along those lines, give the character life, give the actor room to play and give the character a soal... or no soal for that matter. make us scared again. the houses this year were good concepts just executed wrong. it felt like every house i went to was on shift change. espesially in hades, wich could have been an amazing house but places they should have had obviouse character/prop/anamotronic use... was simply not there. i remember going to hhn when the caretaker had his reighn and i myself wa kinda nervouse... cuz i knew the story... i knew the person... and i knew why he wanted me. but again if they do use a cool character like FEAR.. please... let him be cool. let him have his shine....

[armyofrobots]

-Control over the amount of "ops". Didn't encounter a single good op the entire event. Not a single one. They were always distracting, annoying, and/or rude. Stop telling me to move forward, I'll go at my own damn pace. The flashlights are absolutely ridiculous. Give them the hoods that were tested in Catacombs - that might help. But even hoods aren't going to help the attitudes that most of the ops seem to have. Something needs to change with that, or the houses are going to be far less "appreciate the incredible worlds A&D have built and get scared shitless" and much more "gogogo as fast as you can through a claustrophobic warehouse".

I call shenanigans.

I'd imagine you DID encounter a FANTASTIC ops person numerous times, you just never realized it.

[Fallow]

I call shenanigans.

I'd imagine you DID encounter a FANTASTIC ops person numerous times, you just never realized it.

Touche. A good op is unseen and out of mind. That said, if I had a dollar for every op that was obnoxious, rude, or annoying in using his/her flashlight, standing right in the middle of the scene, or otherwise inhibiting on my experience, I'd be rich.

[HHNFreak2006]

Lots of the soundstage houses have had roofs. I can't figure why they didn't this past year. It did detract on occasion, especially in Hades.

Mae

That reminds me, I havent seen a 2 story maze in awhile, I think the reason for the removal of this was, we have alotta people who are handicapped and cannot participate in these circumstances, but also, it slows down the lines of the houses. But still. we havent seen these types of houses since XV (15) (Where Evil Hides).

Luke