HHN XXI Speculation II

[qafboi86]

Going out on a limb here... but what if the icon is the "Joker" card. I mean, they look creepy enough already and they can be substituted for any card. There is also a black joker which symbolically could be evil...

[Legacy]

Going out on a limb here... but what if the icon is the "Joker" card. I mean, they look creepy enough already and they can be substituted for any card. There is also a black joker which symbolically could be evil...

The Joker is removed from the deck for the game of 21... and is technically isn't used in Casino games.

[Sinister]

El la casa de los horrores hablamos español

[strangeoneout]

I know he's over-thinking it.

I think a lot of people are over-processing the clues. WWI pilots... that's definitely going too far. There is symbolism in the cards, absolutely, and I have already stated (although I have to double check to see if the post is still here) who I am 95% certain the icons are... and it's right there in the cards. (And because I've already stated it, I see no need to dig for it myself... )

Remember from the recap I posted:

The farewell was for the icons.

Not all of the characters we know of were icons.

And one other tip for those who can figure it out:

What if A&D tipped their hand last year? I'll admit I disregarded it... but it's highly probable at this point. And I gave you another gambling hint.

Even Emeric's quotes start making sense when you put them in the right context...

I don't looking at WW1 pilots is going to far. So far Dr. Jimmy has been fairly on the dot and nobody has taken note.

[JDW]

I don't agree with all of your assumpstions Legacy. While I'm not saying you are wrong I think some of the leaps are a bit hasty. For Example:

and probably NOT Vegas.

from 1919 to 1930. Gambling was BIG and Illegal in Vegas. It fits the time frame. To say it is probably not because the font is similar (but not exact) to a HBO show about Atlantic City seems a bit hasty. The font style is indicative to the time frame... not a place.

The Queen of Spades has a dagger and red hair… take that for what it’s worth.

There is symbolism in the cards, absolutely, and I have already stated (although I have to double check to see if the post is still here) who I am 95% certain the icons are... and it's right there in the cards.

How can you be 95% positive? We have a red-headed Queen of Spades and a "death card".

I know Cindy was the "daughter of death" (I know you moved away from that spec). And yes Chance had a dagger, red hair (in some incarnations but not the original), AND her name goes along with the event.

But I've seen your spec elsewhere (and the many things you say over there) and I know you and they are determined that Chance is back.

From you.

So who are the two halves representing... we know that Chance is one of the two... is the other one Death or Fate?

While Fate and chance make far more sense than a Cindy/Chance mashup. I do not like the idea of of chance coming back.

Let me say I for one would be very dissapointed in that. It doesn't make sense at all. Chance is "old hat" and way too connected to Jack. To bring her back to me seems to be an excuse to rehash old ideas. We are supposed to be changing the game but with that your taking two semi-icons that are not new at all, rehasing them, and forcing them to fit together in some weird partnership? Doesn't sound new or creative to me at all. I like the idea of a partnership of icons. But they would need to make sense together and those two just don't.

Edited July 6, 2011 by JWFearman

[DarkFoama]

All this spanish talk is making me think of the film [rec] and if they recreated that apartment with the vintage spanish opera music and possessed sprinting people everywhere it would be crazyyy.

They could utilize the rosarys hanging from doors in hallways that can swing open and have the scareactors running out and scaring the crap out of you.

But since its a foreign film and not extremely popular in the US I guess it wouldn't work?..

[Legacy]

I don't agree with all of your assumpstions Legacy. While I'm not saying you are wrong I think some of the leaps are a bit hasty. For Example:

from 1919 to 1930. Gambling was BIG and Illegal in Vegas. It fits the time frame. To say it is probably not because the font is similar (but not exact) to a HBO show about Atlantic City seems a bit hasty. The font style is indicative to the time frame... not a place.

I don't know why, but I don't think it's Vegas. I could definitely be presumptuous in that, but very rarely has A&D gone with an "obvious" location. It's one of the things that makes the speculating so much fun. Even when something is located in New York, they tend to find obscure, specific sub-buroughs. Also, I'm a big fan of the use of New York and possibly the San Fransisco boardwalk as focal points this year (I stupidly didn't pay attention to the Scarezone locations last night). The visuals of the buildings (especially the boardwalk) leans more to an Atlantic City-inspired setting than the middle of a desert. It's also possible that it's somewhere else completely.

How can you be 95% positive? We have a red-headed Queen of Spades and a "death card".

I know Cindy was the "daughter of death". And yes Chance had a dagger, red hair (in some incarnations but not the original), AND her name goes along with the event. But it is too early to say we will have a tag team icon duo of Chance and Cindy.

Let me say I for one would be very dissapointed in that. It doesn't make sense at all. Cindy doesn't fit a gambling theme at all. Chance is "old hat" and way too connected to Jack. To bring her back to me seems to be an excuse to rehash old ideas. We are supposed to be changing the game but with that your taking two semi-icons that are not new at all, rehasing them, and forcing them to fit together in some weird partnership? Doesn't sound new or creative to me at all. I like the idea of a partnership of icons. But they would need to make sense together and those two just don't.

I'm 95% positive because I don't think the solution is so convoluted as people are making it, and it goes in line with what I'm hearing from other sources.

I will clarify that I don't think Cindy is the other icon anymore. That was an inital suspicion based on previous speculation. But, that isn't to say that I think we haven't seen the icon before, but it won't be Cindy. And while Chance may be considered "old hat" by the fans (I personally can't stand her) I'm excited about the potential in what we may be seeing this year. Furthermore, she was a bit-part in a show four years and a non-marketed addition to a scarezone/part-time character in a house last year. She's never been marketed, and her developmental history is even less well-known than Eddie and Cindy. The public isn't 100% familiar with her, but she could be considered recognizable (and marketable) enough to "escort" (as I've heard it phrased) our newer, primary icon.

As I was told, using concepts they've developed in the past would save them a lot of money. There may be a lot of disappointment one way or the other at the reveal, but I really think that, conceptually, this could be one of their more impressive years.

Edited July 6, 2011 by Legacy

[AaronPaHHNFan]

I think we have the time period down pretty well. I'm still not convinced of it being in Atlantic City or Vegas though. I really like the idea of a riverboat casino. Maybe set in New Orleans. It opens up a lot of possibilities including voodoo and the occult. Not that you couldn't do that for AC or Vegas because you could but I like the New Orleans atmosphere better. If Chance and Cindy are the icons this year I will be very disappointed. I don't see how Cindy fits in with this theme at all without rewriting her story. As for Chance she fits much better but what does a clown have to do with a casino or gambling? I think were getting an all new icon(s) this year.

[JDW]

OK after talking with Legacy in chat. I see his line on Chance. I was hesitant to accept the clues. Red hair, dagger, smirk... but of course they are tell-tale signs (after last year of course being chance had brown hair before that).

She could fit stripped of her clown/harlequin appearance and given a reimage. Casino/Vegas/showgirl... not a huge stretch. As long as the whole "Jack" and clown aspects are in the past... sure it can work. I wouldn't be disapointed at that.

In that line of two showgirls, One Fate (death) and one Chance, works as a dual icon combo that fits the theme and make sense together.

Take for example this pic of Lucille Ball and... Bonnie Bannon

Throw them in similar but different colored costumes (black and red most likely) and you got it.

As far as the Doc's WWI idea. It fits the time frame. WWI and WWII span from 1914 to 1945. War was prevalant during this time. It's not a stretch to see war elements at the event... Maybe even a house or SZ based on "war". That is to say if all the houses stay within the same timeframe... Which we know doesn't have to be the case.

Edited July 6, 2011 by JWFearman

[senortico]

Talking about casino and gambling cities, Biloxi Mississippi has a handful of casinos, Nola has riverboat casinos (as already stated), and so does Savannah, which is usually regarded as the most haunted city in the south, and maybe even in the country.

[Shotguy06]

The mobile web site does say " Face the odds and see if you've got a chance to survive Halloween Horror Nights 21."

I would like the concept of Chance classing it up a lil as a Depression Era Casino girl. Not really a show girl, but more like a costume like a cigarette seller or waitress or magicians assistant. I don't think she will be the icon, but it would be cool to see her helping out, and get her story over her own. I mean the drastically changed our view of Cindy last year when we found out she was adopted by Albert Caine, but the new story still fit with the story we already knew.

[FlamingBunnies]

Does anyone know if Rocky Horror will come back this year???

[FlamingBunnies]

Another thing, I know I've said I don't see how Cindy would relate at all, but logistically thinking, it just wouldn't make sense. Chance is the same age she's always been, but Cindy is suddenly somehow old enough to be a showgirl in a casino? it just wouldn't make sense. Especially is the date this year is set before we first saw Cindy. It would just involve so much change to Cindy's character, and if they're going to put that much into it, just keep Cindy as is and just write a new character!

[JDW]

I think we've moved past the idea of Cindy anyway. It would most likely be Fate and Chance. Whether Chance is the minion of Fate or they are a team is another story. I personally prefer a duo rather than a master/minion relationship if they really want to break away from chance's past role. she was already in the mode with Jack.

Edited July 6, 2011 by JWFearman

[demonfalconking]

I think we've moved past the idea of Cindy anyway. It would most likely be Fate and Chance. Whether Chance is the minion of Fate or they are a team is another story. I personally prefer a duo rather than a master/minion relationship if they really want to break away from chance's past role. she was already in the mode with Jack.

well since fear took jack away she had to find something esle to do,

plus did anyone esle realize she was the only one in the scare zone last year that was not some sort of icon(yes i consider eddie and cindy icons even though they got cut)

[Grits0808]

I have been reading alot of the past posts here and on HHN Rumors and I noticed 4 things that keep coming up.

DEATH, LUCK, FATE, and CHANCE....

What if there were 4 icons? DEATH represented by the Ace, LUCK Represented by the Queen of Spades etc.

Or (without taking any consideration of the queen of spades) In no particular order:

ACE=DEATH

HEARTS=LUCK

CLUBS=FATE

DIAMONDS=CHANCE

I don't know how the 4 can all be represented by a card, but if that were the case, those four entities would have to be dealt somehow, which then would give the opportunity for a main icon which would be The Dealer....

......let the fights begin...

[demonfalconking]

I have been reading alot of the past posts here and on HHN Rumors and I noticed 4 things that keep coming up.

DEATH, LUCK, FATE, and CHANCE....

What if there were 4 icons? DEATH represented by the Ace, LUCK Represented by the Queen of Spades etc.

Or (without taking any consideration of the queen of spades) In no particular order:

ACE=DEATH

HEARTS=LUCK

CLUBS=FATE

DIAMONDS=CHANCE

I don't know how the 4 can all be represented by a card, but if that were the case, those four entities would have to be dealt somehow, which then would give the opportunity for a main icon which would be The Dealer....

......let the fights begin...

its not really an argument its just if they did that it would kinda feel like FEAR again

[Legacy]

I have been reading alot of the past posts here and on HHN Rumors and I noticed 4 things that keep coming up.

DEATH, LUCK, FATE, and CHANCE....

What if there were 4 icons? DEATH represented by the Ace, LUCK Represented by the Queen of Spades etc.

Or (without taking any consideration of the queen of spades) In no particular order:

ACE=DEATH

HEARTS=LUCK

CLUBS=FATE

DIAMONDS=CHANCE

I don't know how the 4 can all be represented by a card, but if that were the case, those four entities would have to be dealt somehow, which then would give the opportunity for a main icon which would be The Dealer....

......let the fights begin...

Death is your ultimate Fate, so Death = Fate.

Luck is the same thing as Chance, so Luck = Chance.

Two cards. Two icons.

No need to fight.

[dante]

What if Fate and Chance were a tag team of Showgirls...and they lure people to thier deaths in the Casino kind of like the Sirens in mythology...if not fate would be the dealer deciding the punishement for people who lose and chance is the one who makes sure that it is carried out...

[Lizz]

well since fear took jack away she had to find something esle to do,

plus did anyone esle realize she was the only one in the scare zone last year that was not some sort of icon(yes i consider eddie and cindy icons even though they got cut)

The timeline hasn't been set yet, but this could be Chance's life prior to meeting Jack. Perhaps she was a legitimate showgirl or something a little classier before she met Jack and joined his crew. Also, going off of what JWFearman said... if she is indeed a minion to Fate, that might just be her personality type!

[CNYHHN315]

i love how people tell others if they are wrong or right but your ALL wrong

these cards may have nothing to do with the icons

Edited July 6, 2011 by CNYHHN315

[Guest]

Again, please try not to post one word/line comments. Anything that is off topic or isn't part of speculation will be removed. Also, please DO NOT be rude to one another, let this be fun and enjoyable for all.

[Sohrin]

But I've seen your spec elsewhere (and the many things you say over there) and I know you and they are determined that Chance is back.

While Fate and chance make far more sense than a Cindy/Chance mashup. I do not like the idea of of chance coming back.

Let me say I for one would be very dissapointed in that. It doesn't make sense at all. Chance is "old hat" and way too connected to Jack. To bring her back to me seems to be an excuse to rehash old ideas. We are supposed to be changing the game but with that your taking two semi-icons that are not new at all, rehasing them, and forcing them to fit together in some weird partnership? Doesn't sound new or creative to me at all. I like the idea of a partnership of icons. But they would need to make sense together and those two just don't.

Just for the record, I was not intending that the speculation based on the appearance of the Queen of Spades would result in the idea that Chance would be back. Just like you JW, I would probably be the most displeased person at the event if Chance was back; it is nonsensical to be both out with the old, and then to bring back a character no matter its significance. I was merely stating that the Queen of Spades has a peculiar, atypical appearance and that THAT is worth attention, not Chance... haha. Uni and A&D, as we know, have an extremely acute attention to detail, and anything that seems out of the ordinary in plain view, is intended to be. The real question is, "why"?

[dante]

If Chance were to come back this year/if she were to be continued to be used then i feel that her connections to jack should be severed all together because if not then they leave a small window of possibilty of her bringing back Jack...with a few Minions and a new look Chance has what it takes to stand alone as an icon and if she were the icon this year i want to see how shes rises from secound fiddle to the spotlight

[senortico]

I did some research about the history of gambling in the United States (ie not just Wiki), and gambling was legalized in Las Vegas by 1931. I feel this time period ties in with the music and mood of the teaser site.

Now why I bring up Vegas is because of this: crime. I have been to Vegas 5 seperate occassions for at least two weeks at a time. I've heard the story and myth of Ted Binion. But what I've never heard of was a member of the Jewish mafia, with ties to the Italians named Lensky. Lensky opened the Flamingo. There is one very very strong connection I could make with Lensky and the teaser's motto/tag. The legitamacey (I know I spelt that wrong) of Lensky's casino games were often called into question. To almost everyone it seemed as if his games were indeed rigged. Hmmmm... "nobody beats the House."

I have a very strong feeling our icon may be somewhat based off this. If our icon is some sort of mafia type, to me that seems original and can be taken very very dark. The Queen of Spades is also interesting because if the icon is loosely based of Lensky but instead is female, that to would be an interesting concept.