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HHN 21: Our Mutual Friend


JDW
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I'm really beginning to feel at lot like somebody did last year when they kept trying to quote FDR and nobody would let them, or listen to them.

I suppose the only way I can be understood is to explain everything as explicitly as possible, which spoils all the fun and makes me sound like I'm talking down to you.

Look at the way the phrase is worded. It is not the way most people would normally structure such a sentence. We would rather say "The three with whom I would talk in heaven would be..." , but here we find this odd structure: "In heaven, the three with whom I would talk?" Not only does this pose a question, but it strongly emphasizes "In heaven".

Shouldn't it then be much more likely and reasonable that IF there is a link between the three other than their state of life and death, that it should have something to do with Heaven?

In that case doesn't it make a great deal more sense to point towards the book Eoin Colfer wrote that was set in Heaven, rather than the one set in Antarctica? We know there is going to be a Thing house, do we have to force the clues to match this?

Likewise, Falk has played many Detectives and Gangsters, but he also appeared in a film about Angels set in Cold War Berlin, where one somewhat "fallen" angel longs to talk with him. A Berlin half bombed out and cut in half by a wall, literally a city at once alive, dying and dead! Furthermore although this film is known by many by it's American title Wings of Desire, it's original title was Der Himmel Über Berlin - Heaven over Berlin. Himmel the German name for Heaven and Fallen Angels also have a Legendary Truthfulness about them.

And as I tried to point out with the Japanese video Apple was founded by Jobs inspired by his great idol John Lennon. He copied the Beatles Apple record label in naming his company. He has over and over again used the song Imagine in Apple campaigns with it's opening refrain "Imagine there's no heaven..." The Apple logo is an apple with one bite taken out of it. It strongly suggests the apple Eve gave to Adam in Paradise, leading to the Fall - Mankind being driven out of Paradise by an angel with a fiery sword.

Heaven, the afterlife, angels, damnation, all connect these three in this context. But of course the most important thing about them is one alive one dying one dead as Rob pointed out originally.

Now consider the words quoted by Emeric Belasco in connection to all this:

Pity is for the living, envy is for the dead. (a comment on a relationship between the living and the dead)

Full circle. A new terror born in death, a new superstition entering the unassailable fortress of forever. (note the phrase "born in death" an oxymoron worth considering!)

I would drag ye whining from Hell's own gate: To me, to me, ye must pay the toll! (Hell, Death and the afterlife)

Life is only an outer layer, for reality is only realized by the insane. (if life is an outer layer, what is the inner layer?)

and even his final statement, his "Last Words" if you will: The time has come for this incarnation to evanesce. Goodbye. (death and possible rebirth?)

Is this really too much of a stretch to see that the cycle of life, dying and death is rather important? Or that Heaven, Hell, Purgatory or whatever lies on The Other Side is involved?

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or even what escorts you to the other side, or leads you there...

but you explain it more loquaciously than i jimmy

but then... i tend to prefer to be more cryptic.

He should have kept it that way. All this reminds me ( The best place to hide something, is right under your nose / or in plain site. )

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OK I got that the death aspect when you guys first postulated it. I've just been trying to to find a double entendre as that seems a really long and obtuse way to get to the point.

But:

We have our mutual friend referencing death/afterlife...

You guys have been heavily speculating Fate and Chance. Chance makes sense in the role of a casino and odds.

Fate: The development of events outside a person's control, regarded as determined by a supernatural power.

The embodiment of Fate classically is the grim reaper. Death = the ultimate fate. Death card = Fate.

I got all that. Maybe I'm just looking for more in the clue than there is.

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I got all that. Maybe I'm just looking for more in the clue than there is.

We did the exact same thing with Emeric, last year.

We thought his FDR quote was too simple.

We thought the Shakespeare reference was too simple.

We thought his Annie reference was too simple.

We thought the Catacombs quote was too simple.

In hindsight, all of his quotes last year weren't vague, but rather simple, literal and too the point.

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Well I obsess over minutiae to a fault with puzzles. Anytime I find the answer in front of me... I almost always keep digging.

Perhaps there is more... or perhaps there is not. But it is what it is.

Edited by JWFearman
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OK I got that the death aspect when you guys first postulated it. I've just been trying to to find a double entendre as that seems a really long and obtuse way to get to the point.

But:

We have our mutual friend referencing death/afterlife...

You guys have been heavily speculating Fate and Chance. Chance makes sense in the role of a casino and odds.

Fate: The development of events outside a person's control, regarded as determined by a supernatural power.

The embodiment of Fate classically is the grim reaper. Death = the ultimate fate. Death card = Fate.

I got all that. Maybe I'm just looking for more in the clue than there is.

I got ya man.

Worried Montressor?

ill just say... i've watched a lot of people over the years run all over looking for things that were sitting right in front of their noses.

Poe? Wrong park :P Good story involving chains, and catacombs and death.

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I got ya man.

Poe? Wrong park :P Good story involving chains, and catacombs and death.

and Fate, hence why i thought it a fitting quote....

but as jimmy and i said... Its never as hard as people make it out to be... and that's what they count on.

Edited by TheEyeOfHorus
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I'm really beginning to feel at lot like somebody did last year when they kept trying to quote FDR and nobody would let them, or listen to them.

I suppose the only way I can be understood is to explain everything as explicitly as possible, which spoils all the fun and makes me sound like I'm talking down to you.

Look at the way the phrase is worded. It is not the way most people would normally structure such a sentence. We would rather say "The three with whom I would talk in heaven would be..." , but here we find this odd structure: "In heaven, the three with whom I would talk?" Not only does this pose a question, but it strongly emphasizes "In heaven".

Shouldn't it then be much more likely and reasonable that IF there is a link between the three other than their state of life and death, that it should have something to do with Heaven?

In that case doesn't it make a great deal more sense to point towards the book Eoin Colfer wrote that was set in Heaven, rather than the one set in Antarctica? We know there is going to be a Thing house, do we have to force the clues to match this?

Likewise, Falk has played many Detectives and Gangsters, but he also appeared in a film about Angels set in Cold War Berlin, where one somewhat "fallen" angel longs to talk with him. A Berlin half bombed out and cut in half by a wall, literally a city at once alive, dying and dead! Furthermore although this film is known by many by it's American title Wings of Desire, it's original title was Der Himmel Über Berlin - Heaven over Berlin. Himmel the German name for Heaven and Fallen Angels also have a Legendary Truthfulness about them.

And as I tried to point out with the Japanese video Apple was founded by Jobs inspired by his great idol John Lennon. He copied the Beatles Apple record label in naming his company. He has over and over again used the song Imagine in Apple campaigns with it's opening refrain "Imagine there's no heaven..." The Apple logo is an apple with one bite taken out of it. It strongly suggests the apple Eve gave to Adam in Paradise, leading to the Fall - Mankind being driven out of Paradise by an angel with a fiery sword.

Heaven, the afterlife, angels, damnation, all connect these three in this context. But of course the most important thing about them is one alive one dying one dead as Rob pointed out originally.

Now consider the words quoted by Emeric Belasco in connection to all this:

Pity is for the living, envy is for the dead. (a comment on a relationship between the living and the dead)

Full circle. A new terror born in death, a new superstition entering the unassailable fortress of forever. (note the phrase "born in death" an oxymoron worth considering!)

I would drag ye whining from Hell's own gate: To me, to me, ye must pay the toll! (Hell, Death and the afterlife)

Life is only an outer layer, for reality is only realized by the insane. (if life is an outer layer, what is the inner layer?)

and even his final statement, his "Last Words" if you will: The time has come for this incarnation to evanesce. Goodbye. (death and possible rebirth?)

Is this really too much of a stretch to see that the cycle of life, dying and death is rather important? Or that Heaven, Hell, Purgatory or whatever lies on The Other Side is involved?

Thank you, Dr. Jimmy, for explaining this in a way none of the rest of us would be able to do. Not sure even such a thorough explanation will convert certain folks, but you are being heard.

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or even what escorts you to the other side, or leads you there...

but you explain it more loquaciously than i jimmy

but then... i tend to prefer to be more cryptic.

He should have kept it that way. All this reminds me ( The best place to hide something, is right under your nose / or in plain site. )

My cryptic comments are far to ephemeral it seems, they are like bubbles on the breeze or mayflies reminding us of the great impermanence of all things.

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Thank you, Dr. Jimmy, for explaining this in a way none of the rest of us would be able to do. Not sure even such a thorough explanation will convert certain folks, but you are being heard.

Every year the right people come into any or all the forums like this one and give their information, and every year it is ignored so some of us choose to be cryptic about it. The good Dr. got a taste for what some have been experiencing for a long time. And frustration lead to his actions, no disrespect of course to the Dr. I am sure you know where I am coming from. You and others like me direct the thinking to make things easier both for the members that have to sift through pages of info and mods that clean up the pages of info.

But just to explain to Lizz it happens all the time. A&D have budgets ( far less than you think ) and so they too would LOVE to make a grand event, however there comes a time to " get real " and so they are limited by resources not imagination. The general public out weigh the fans, so they go with what makes sense.

And It is all in good fun, so just hang in there as history tends to repeat itself and it's up to you to make up your own mind. From here the updates will come, the claiming of who " called it " and then the reviews, comments, opinions on the event, and El Fin! We wait and do it all over again next year starting with lavish theories of what is going to take place that year.

I think the updates will come soon, and with that more clues to go along with what we got so far.

My cryptic comments are far to ephemeral it seems, they are like bubbles on the breeze or mayflies reminding us of the great impermanence of all things.

Well stated sir.

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From here the updates will come, the claiming of who " called it " and then the reviews, comments, opinions on the event, and El Fin!

I think the updates will come soon, and with that more clues to go along with what we got so far.

Birth, Life, and Death of a HHN year :P

I also think we have an update fairly soon.

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Every year the right people come into any or all the forums like this one and give their information, and every year it is ignored so some of us choose to be cryptic about it. The good Dr. got a taste for what some have been experiencing for a long time. And frustration lead to his actions, no disrespect of course to the Dr. I am sure you know where I am coming from. You and others like me direct the thinking to make things easier both for the members that have to sift through pages of info and mods that clean up the pages of info.

But just to explain to Lizz it happens all the time. A&D have budgets ( far less than you think ) and so they too would LOVE to make a grand event, however there comes a time to " get real " and so they are limited by resources not imagination. The general public out weigh the fans, so they go with what makes sense.

And It is all in good fun, so just hang in there as history tends to repeat itself and it's up to you to make up your own mind. From here the updates will come, the claiming of who " called it " and then the reviews, comments, opinions on the event, and El Fin! We wait and do it all over again next year starting with lavish theories of what is going to take place that year.

I think the updates will come soon, and with that more clues to go along with what we got so far.

Well stated sir.

This I know... I'm not a noob ;) I was just trying to thank Dr. Jimmy because I understand the frustrations of trying to convey information subtly and having that information ignored because it wasn't spoon fed. I, myself, prefer to play things closer to the chest and keep the riddle alive. Just wanted Dr. Jimmy to know that people ARE listening - cryptic or not.

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This I know... I'm not a noob ;) I was just trying to thank Dr. Jimmy because I understand the frustrations of trying to convey information subtly and having that information ignored because it wasn't spoon fed. I, myself, prefer to play things closer to the chest and keep the riddle alive. Just wanted Dr. Jimmy to know that people ARE listening - cryptic or not.

My apologies if it came off that way. I personally hate the term ( noob ) so I wasn't implying that you were.

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I feel a bit silly for saying this, but am I the only one enormously confused? I read and considered the original riddle and enjoyed Dr. Jimmy's straight forward explanation. Good doctor, thank you for being blunt and for your research.

But here's my confusion - what the hell does heaven&hell&even death have to do with our gambling/fate/casino theme? The last thing I think of when I look at the current HHN website is the gates of heaven or hell, to be completely honest. Are we looking at two different events, or is this referring to a specific house? Because I just can't see Chance or possibly even Fate tying into this.

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I feel a bit silly for saying this, but am I the only one enormously confused? I read and considered the original riddle and enjoyed Dr. Jimmy's straight forward explanation. Good doctor, thank you for being blunt and for your research.

But here's my confusion - what the hell does heaven&hell&even death have to do with our gambling/fate/casino theme? The last thing I think of when I look at the current HHN website is the gates of heaven or hell, to be completely honest. Are we looking at two different events, or is this referring to a specific house? Because I just can't see Chance or possibly even Fate tying into this.

No matter what, everyone (Healthy, Sick, Dead) has the same FATE.

Edited by Legacy
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No matter what, everyone (Healthy, Sick, Dead) has the same FATE.

I guess I could have figured that. So are they just teasing us for the "Fate" icon reveal? Because I think that's all we can draw from this clue, unless, again, I'm missing something very important.

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I guess I could have figured that. So are they just teasing us for the "Fate" icon reveal? Because I think that's all we can draw from this clue, unless, again, I'm missing something very important.

Nope, that's it. We're ahead of the game on this one.

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Also do not expect that EVERY house and scarezone will tie in with a gambling theme. We will likely have a house set in a gambling establishment, but that does not mean every house will be. in fact we are pretty certain that there will be a house based on the upcoming Thing film.

BUT, even if every house does not tie-in to gambling and games of chance by theme, they may in fact tie-in to this concept in another way altogether...

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This prob means nothing but they all have ties to Disney. Disney just signed a three book deal with Eoin Colfer. Steve Jobs is on the Disney Board of Directors and Peter Falk was in the Disney film Corkey Romano and ABC aired the more recent episodes of Columbo.

The icon in zombie Walt?

My vote is the Noir/gangster angle. It's been thrown around a lot in the past year and there are far too many clues pointing in that direction.

Mae

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Just wanted to bring this up:

I did some research about the history of gambling in the United States (ie not just Wiki), and gambling was legalized in Las Vegas by 1931. I feel this time period ties in with the music and mood of the teaser site.

Now why I bring up Vegas is because of this: crime. I have been to Vegas 5 seperate occassions for at least two weeks at a time. I've heard the story and myth of Ted Binion. But what I've never heard of was a member of the Jewish mafia, with ties to the Italians named Lensky. Lensky opened the Flamingo. There is one very very strong connection I could make with Lensky and the teaser's motto/tag. The legitamacey (I know I spelt that wrong) of Lensky's casino games were often called into question. To almost everyone it seemed as if his games were indeed rigged. Hmmmm... "nobody beats the House."

I have a very strong feeling our icon may be somewhat based off this. If our icon is some sort of mafia type, to me that seems original and can be taken very very dark. The Queen of Spades is also interesting because if the icon is loosely based of Lensky but instead is female, that to would be an interesting concept.

Falk played Columbo. Colfer is most famous for his Artemis Fowl novels with a criminal mastermind as the protagonist. And people "jailbreak" Steve Jobs inventions, not to mention Jobs broke the law when Apple first started by making blue boxes. I am seeing a crime connection here more so then death.

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Just wanted to bring this up:

Falk played Columbo. Colfer is most famous for his Artemis Fowl novels with a criminal mastermind as the protagonist. And people "jailbreak" Steve Jobs inventions, not to mention Jobs broke the law when Apple first started by making blue boxes. I am seeing a crime connection here more so then death.

But that involves disregarding the first portion of the clue... first portion only makes sense if all three people are "dead."

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