Fantasy vs. Reality

[Legacy]

Rather than take up valuable Spec space with a opinion-based discussion (and give the mods more work), I thought it would be best to bring this here.

Which do you prefer as a foundation for your scares and Halloween Horror Nights as a whole: Fantasy or Reality?

Fantasy - This would include any characters or themes that stem solely from the imagination. General characters would include Vampires, Werewolves, and the Re-animated Undead. General themes would include Myths, Legends and Movies. Prior concepts used for HHN that could be considered "Fantasy" include Scary Tales, Vampyr, all of Terra Cruentes, and Bloody Mary. This can also include excessive "magical" qualities being prescribed to characters, including teleportation, pyrokineticism and, yes, immortality.

Reality - This includes characters, themes, or locations that are historical, documented or cultural. General concepts and ideas include Military, Infection/Sickness, and the Paranormal (Ghosts). General themes would include History, People/Individual Actions, Locations or Culture. Prior concepts include (obviously) Havoc, Catacombs, Legendary Truth, but also includes Ghost Town, Hellgate and the original Psychoscarepy. Many times, reality is a basis for fantasy (such as a castle-filled with vampires or centuries-old doctors), but I'm referring to attempts to keep a theme grounded in tangible belief.

I have my opinion, but I want to see some of your thoughts before I dive in (so I'm not the one driving the conversation).

[Carnagefan]

I like alternating years. Either way would wear thin if everything every was solid reality or fantasy

[JDW]

As I stated in the other thread:

I think you need an element of reality to transition you into the fantastic. Once there it no longer has to stay in the realm of reality. It just needs to be believable enough of a transition and they get you to accept anything.

For example: Plague docotrs and Plague victims who are magically alive hundreds of years later aren't realistic by any stretch. BUT... the Catacombs themselves are a real place. That place was convincing enough to allow you to accept the fantastical elements.

I personally lean towards the fantastical. Because real life, even if more plausable... Is depressing, boring, and predictable (with a few exceptions I will touch on in a moment). It is evident that 2008 was many people's favorite year and it was furthest from reality the event had been in a while. But that doesn't mean I don't like something to tie it to realiity. I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive but rather a harmonious blend is key.

For example. Nothing in '08 was all THAT realistic. While you could argue aliens invading a Roadhouse, a spaceship crew going crazy, or a zombie plague outbreak could fall under Legacy's definition of "reality"... but they are very fantastical elements. However, the story of the year is what draws you in and transitions you into the fantastical. A doctor goes mad, kills her patients using their fears, and then suffers a death that somehow imbues her soul with an evil entity that uses these fears to draw you in. Therefore, the reality of the event was "Refelections of Fear" (not a great house but intended to tell the straights who BM was). Going through the gates was the stepping into a fantasy world.

See it's not about either or but supspension of disbelief. Movies, books, plays, and stories in general are gauged on how effectively they can do this.

From WiKi:

Suspension of disbelief or "willing suspension of disbelief" is a formula for justifying the use of fantastic or non-realistic elements in literary works of fiction. It was put forth in English by the poet and aesthetic philosopher Samuel Taylor Coleridge, who suggested that if a writer could infuse a "human interest and a semblance of truth" into a fantastic tale, the reader would suspend judgment concerning the implausibility of the narrative. Suspension of disbelief often applies to fictional works of the action, comedy, and horror genres.

So I propose to you that Universal's ability to suspend the audience's disbelief is what makes the event successful or not. Of course there are many things that factor into this: The audience, how immersive the event is, how viseral (or real) the houses feel, and how believable the reality-based facts are.

Right off the bat, the audience is varied so that becomes a challenge. You have the people who cosplay and actually think they could be a vampire, elf, etc. But, more increasingly, you have the people who go to these events, have seen it all, and have become desensitized and almost jaded to horror events. These people need to be convinced more and the ability to suspend their disbelief becomes less and less every year. (It's why people who have gone to the event every year start criticizing the event as "no longer scary") Legacy's idea to inject more real-life, believable locations and situations is a good way to reach these people.

How immersive the event is plays on this as well because it takes you out of the real-life contxet and throws you into a completely different world. I think Universal does a decent job but honestly I felt they lost a lot of this when they went back to the studios. The feel is completely different at IOA and it was easier to suspend your disbelief because everything is fantastical there. The studios' ambience is grounded firmly in reality. All the areas are modelled on real places and even very commonplace. There is no area (except may Fivel's playland) that even attempts to be fantastical. I understand the move due to crowds but ultimately I think it hurt the event to a degree.

Universal compensates for the immersiveness by upping the visceral qualities of the houses. The houses are amazingly detailed and affect all of your senses. Bar none this is their strongest quality and, what I feel, holds the event together. Largely because if they can convince your senses it is real... then your mind believes it.

Finally we come back to the reality-based elements. The use or real-world environments are key in keeping you believing the situation is real. If you believe the situation is real then you will feel in danger and the fear will, by proxy, be there. Two good examples:

Jacks Fun house in 3D: Nothing in the house is realistic... bright colors, akward glasses, over the top characters... None of this lends to a suspension of belief. This type of house hopes to disorient you enough to confuse you while hoping you are also afraid of clowns. If neither of these things work... the house fails. This is why these houses fail for me consistently and why I gladly skip them if push comes to shove.

Texas Chainsaw: Real word locations with real world danger. You have a house in the middle of Texas... about as real and common place as you get. You have crazy people (hardly a stretch) who want to eat you. No magical qualities at all (aside from leather face's unstoppable drive and strength). This type of house is rare but very effective. It is rare because it is completely believable and completely commonplace (so very little suspension of disbelief is needed) yet it somehow can keep your intrest without feeling too comonplace. This makes for a very effective scare. The house was a huge sucess and the movies have been as well.

So in conclusion, as I stated above, you need to have a precise mix of reality and fantasy. Too much fantasy and most people wont believe it at all and, while they may enjoy it, it won't be scary. Too much reality and it doesn't allow the guest to escape real life (which is why we go to these type events). In these depressing times, people want to escape the troubles of real life. Fantasy helps them do that. It creates danger but it is still "safe" on some level... and FUN! But people reject the fantasy if they cannot believe in it and that is what the reality elements do. The synergistic effect is a "head in the clouds with feet firmly planted on the ground" feeling that is stronger than either element by itself. I think that Universal, for the most part, is effective at this. While they are not perfect, the process is being perfected. I, for one, am excited to see what this "New Age" holds for us and, with any luck, they will tweak the formula even further and we will see another truly amazing event.

Edited June 14, 2011 by JWFearman

[The Director of Horror]

I think this was a great question to ask!

I'm usually more scared of things on the reality side, but fantasy can always freak me out a bit. I believe that you can have nightmares based off the two, but when it comes to getting a good scare at Horror Nights, it all relies on the scare-tactic and actor. Y'all understand what I'm saying. People can have a "personal" connection to having a fear of a real insane people instead of the Boogey Man.... or it could be the other way around. But when it comes to getting a quick scare inside the Sprung tent, a masked killer could scare me just as much as a black and white zombie. It usually relies on the scare-tactic. Understand?

Jeramy posted while I was writing, and after reading his opinion I agree with a lot of what he said. Like you said, 2008 was one of the fans' favorite years, and had hardly any reality. I didn't attend Reflections of Fear, but can tell I would've loved going. Fantasy (2008) brings scares, but in my opinion brings a lot of fun as well. You can't have an event without scares and fun. What I was talking about above was more about my "personal" fears and not about HHN. I strongly believe what Jeramy said about fantasy vs. reality on an event point of view.

I would much rather have a year based off fantasy than reality, though.

Edited June 17, 2011 by The Director of Horror

[killswitch22]

My thoughts are that Universal can take these fantasies and turn them into realities. But what Legacy defines by fantasy and reality as, I would say that reality s scarier than fantasy. Maniacs with chainsaws and insane asylum inmates scare me much more than the Wolfman. The fact that these things can actually come true and that these realistic people are out to get me scare me the most. Sure movie houses and disturbed story book characters have their moments but those can be hit and miss like JW says.

[Jumboshrmp]

Reality - This includes characters, themes, or locations that are historical, documented or cultural. General concepts and ideas include Military, Infection/Sickness, and the Paranormal (Ghosts). General themes would include History, People/Individual Actions, Locations or Culture. Prior concepts include (obviously) Havoc, Catacombs, Legendary Truth, but also includes Ghost Town, Hellgate and the original Psychoscarepy. Many times, reality is a basis for fantasy (such as a castle-filled with vampires or centuries-old doctors), but I'm referring to attempts to keep a theme grounded in tangible belief.

You consider the paranormal to be under the reality catagory? Then in that case I'm all for the reality side of things 90% of the time.

Things like Catacombs and War of the Living Dead are the most interesting to me when it comes to scenery and immersiveness, however when it comes down to what actually scares me and makes me jump in the night when walking down a dark hallway, it's all the paranormal that freaks me out. We all know monsters, aliens, vampires and werewolves aren't real. But what about ghosts, demons, and other things spiritual or paranormal? Because if you can't see it, how do you know it doesn't exist?

Edited June 14, 2011 by Jumboshrmp

[Spook]

I find waking up to reality a lot more scary then any haunted house concept. But true terror is never were you seem to find it. Fear is different for every person to me taking an average situation and turning dark and twisted is by far the best.

[Shadybrook Oddfellow]

I gotta say reality. In fantasy it scares you, yet in reality you know it can happen.

[LV-426]

I think this is a really hard one to decide because nothing is only fantasy, and all the reality stuff has fantasy in it, I mean, most subjects have both, and nothing in HHN is completely realistic, except for a few, like Saw, sure is a movie about a fictional character but everything about it is real, or texas chainsaw, those two houses i consider completely realistic,also along with Havoc, so I guess chainsaws and killers fall under realistic, but, then, like 80% of what Uni does has a lot of fantasy in it, zombies, demons, vampires, or at least some fantasy, at the same time, a lot of fantasy houses can feel real and the actors make it real so is hard to say

I think that you have to consider ghosts as fantasy even if they are real because is not something you have to deal with every day, is not something you hear about on the news, like serial killers, and a house like legendary truth there is not much of reality in it, so is hard, catacombs, even if the place is real, doesnt really apply to reality since it was corpses and doctors attacking you,

but, I'll say, Fantasy is better, i know killers and chainsaws are scary but, I personally have never really been scared by the chainsaw actors in the scarezones, they might have gotten me startled, but never scared, that doesn't mean I don't like them or chainsaws, but the scarezones with chainsaws are usually not my favorites, the best scarezones have been fantasy related I think, plus fantasy equals to imagination, I mean, the people that create these houses and scarezones, when is a fantasy subject, it has to be creative, while in something like saw, everything is already lay out for them, and for more amazing that Havoc was, the sets were not great and the costumes were not great at all, the story of the house was forgettable, Thank God for the amazing actors,

I guess I like both, and both can suck, it depends on more factors, but, I think fantasy can be nicer

but, again, JWFearman said it best

Edited June 17, 2011 by black mask

[Cody]

Like JW said, it all depends on how it's done. I've done some houses that are EXTREMELY grounded in reality, like cannibalistic street gangs, serial killers, and psychotic bums. At the same time I've done a house that midway through "flips" to a hellish dimension and sends you back through the same locations surrounded by demons and horror that had only been glimpsed or hinted at in the first half. Fantasy and realism can both be done effectively, you just need to make sure to keep it visceral enough that you can believe it.

[Goo]

Reality really hits home for me at HHN, which is why I prefer it. I really hope to see more real fears in these upcoming years. Real life horrors get to me. I felt very, very unsafe, uncomfortable and scared walking through TCM house. When you bring real danger into the situation, it's very easy to believe, rather than zombies, aliens, etc. I was the same way when I walked through the Strangers section of the Silver Screams house. The scene was very small, but it had me scared out of my mind. I'm defiantly affected more by the real life horrors.

As for fantasy, unless it's done perfectly right, I tend to be able to keep my cool. Now, Hades last year got to me. It captured me. Everything from the facade, to the things hanging from the ceiling, to the characters. I walked into the house thinking it was gonna be cake to walk through. But the house ended up being the scariest house of the year for me. If fantasy is done right, it can be just as horrifying as reality.

[dante]

Reality...the thought that it can happen to anyone scares me....