The "Official" Annual Discussion On The Fate Of HHN

[Coast]

This type of thread gets created every year and it never gets any less ridiculous. USF was the 16th most visited theme park in the world with over 7 million visitors in 2013. They appeal to the masses, not the 100 or so die hard fans, and the masses want IP's. This event "isn't what it used to be" because the attendance is much greater than it has ever been. The Walking Dead smashed records on its way to being the #1 rated show on cable and among HHN's age demographic. It would have been stupid of them to not continue to bring it in. I'm sorry but it's the reality. Also I find it hilarious that it's horrible that Walking Dead is coming back again yet Jack's return (this would be his SEVENTH) is highly requested every sngle year.

They absolutely do things that cater to us, don't act like they don't. Who do you think the Unmasking the Horror tours are for? Who do you think they created that Legendary Truth game (which was free) for two years ago? Those things cost money and they do it for us to show their appreciation.

Wanna know what the real "status" of HHN is? It's kicking ass.

As for the "they lack creativity" claims, I'll let Mr. Gromoll handle that:

Edited August 4, 2014 by Coast

[SeventyOne]

This event "isn't what it used to be" because the attendance is much greater than it has ever been. T

Great post overall, but I do wonder when people say that if they're only remembering--or perhaps only read about--the top one or two houses every year, forgetting the three or four that just never quite did it. Your Cold Blind Terror, or Fear Factor, or Run, or (much as I have a soft spot for it) People Under the Stairs. I think even the weakest houses in the last 3 years still beat out any of those, and many more.

[JDW]

Agreed on that. Even though every year there is a dud for me. HAVOC was mine last year. But overall still better than some of houses from the iconic years.

Also, most of the fondly remembered iconic years had one or two less houses.

[dante]

I long for the days of awesome icons, i long for the days that the website would open up piece by piece to slowly reveal something more menacing! I love the event don't get me wrong but they need to go back to basics. Take a look at all the original Icons (Jack, Caretaker, Director, Story Teller, Usher) and see what made them what they were! EFFORT! Effort is the word, they put so much time to build these characters and design them from background story to the clothing they wore. They need to show us that they still have this creativity back in them. The websites and getting more and more bland as are the commercials and it hurts. I'm not gonna sit here and claim to have been to HHN every year, my first year was 19 i then attended 20 and 21 the last 3 years of icons. 19 was my favorite year of all! the commercial, the website updates ooh how they fascinated me. This will be my first year back since 21 and idk what to expect but i just hope we can expect a back to basics planning for next year of the event.

[Legacy]

I long for the days of awesome icons, i long for the days that the website would open up piece by piece to slowly reveal something more menacing! I love the event don't get me wrong but they need to go back to basics. Take a look at all the original Icons (Jack, Caretaker, Director, Story Teller, Usher) and see what made them what they were! EFFORT! Effort is the word, they put so much time to build these characters and design them from background story to the clothing they wore. They need to show us that they still have this creativity back in them. The websites and getting more and more bland as are the commercials and it hurts. I'm not gonna sit here and claim to have been to HHN every year, my first year was 19 i then attended 20 and 21 the last 3 years of icons. 19 was my favorite year of all! the commercial, the website updates ooh how they fascinated me. This will be my first year back since 21 and idk what to expect but i just hope we can expect a back to basics planning for next year of the event.

No offense, but you're contradicting yourself. If you want the event to go "back to its basics" then that's exactly what they're doing with simple websites, numerous IPs, repeated houses and no icons. That's what the event was and at its most base level that's all it needs to be. Their first icon was revealed their tenth year. Their first official "story" told through a complicated website was their fifteenth. You don't want "basics." You want what you first experienced and first heard about.

The icons, for all their glory, I'm certain were a massive time-soak. Writing hyper-involved backstories with multiple characters, maintaining canon, and then building the framework to present everything in a modern way is not easy. It's incredibly hard. At this point, with the size of the event, the necessity for social media integration, the fans' clamor for ever more complication, Universal would need to hire someone to JUST market HHN. I'll say this. It's flat not worth paying someone $30,000 a year to market a month-long event. Argue all you want about it being a "great idea that would help expand HHN's appeal," but from a business perspective it is flat not worth the expense.

The websites from 2005-2009 were basically created by the same people who design the houses. The whole event, from concept to design to marketing to production, was managed almost entirely by a small group of people. And unless management said no to something (like a tortured little girl or a scantily-clad motorcycle demon), that team had free reign. But they also had time. They weren't a head directors responsible for all of the live entertainment on property. They weren't designing and producing a year's worth of rapidly expanding entertainment offerings. They weren't needed to design shows for the two biggest additions to hit theme parks world-wide. They were designers with a couple of annual events (that mostly reused props and scripts) and then HHN where they got to be gods. They can't be that anymore, ironically because they have even more power than they did before.

So whine and kvetch about the lack of creativity when it requires the same amount of creativity to design an original house as it does an IP. (Arguably more, considering originals don't have restrictions and nothing forces creativity than restrictions). The truth is that this is what a successful theme park haunt looks like... because this is what a successful theme park looks like. The basics.

[hunnylvr]

Ya know, I have to agree with Legacy on this 100%. Do I miss the websites and all the interaction leading up to the event? Hell yes.. However, I also know that there is only so much time in a day, and when someone (or a group of someones) is now tasked with much more responsibility, then it's impossible for them to "carry on as before". The only thing that changes is change, right?

I used to be the one really gunning for the "original" houses because so many of them were my favorites. I'm sure they will continue to delight me going forward.. However, then I got to experience AWIL and CiTW, and I was blown away... the amount of work AND creativity required to do those IP houses and get such a response is astounding.

The only thing that seriously pissed me off to an irrational level was the Walking Dead "street experience". I get the whole money-making process of why they needed TWD at the event, but that "street experience" idea came from a total idiot. I know for a fact that even the coveted "GP' was pretty much saying "What the hell" after a short time enduring that bucket of suck. That being said, I sure don't blame A&D for that one, nor would I ever say it was because of "lack of creativity".

All in all, I only see the event improving - and with improvement comes growing pains. They still have rocking awesome quality houses at this event, and that's why I drop ass-loads of money to attend. I'm thrilled that this year is my 10 year anniversary, and I can't wait to get there - even with TWD.

[JackTheREAPER]

I agree, this year's lineup is looking amazing!

[clash]

Short answer? Because the #1 show on television is going to generate a lot more interest in the general public than a character created specifically for the event.

When we lack a strong IP, we'll probably see a return to icons to drum up interest.

but like I said earlier, I don't understand why they couldn't take one walker and made him the "Icon" of the event. one main zombie that would had his own photo op like lady luck did and that showed up on shirts and stuff.

the thing is that they don't even have to try too hard with coming up with an icon, look at hos...

[Legacy]

the thing is that they don't even have to try too hard with coming up with an icon, look at hos...

And? HOS is in its 15th year, is an arguable step down in quality, and has nowhere near the resources available to do IPs (ie - none). HoS is where Universal was a decade ago in almost all facets. An icon is necessary when your big brother down the road can pick up the biggest names in horror.

Universal doesn't need icons now. Why is that (objectively) a bad thing?

Edited August 6, 2014 by Legacy

[Guest]

It's not really a bad thing about whether having an Icon for the event, but it is the icing on the cake that makes the event even better. When there is an Icon, they have to come up with a central theme with the Icon to tie he / she with the event. I know the general public population doesn't care about stuff like that, but the fanboys do. It seems HHN is becoming too commercialized and wants to partake to the general public crowd and draw in more money. I myself wish to have a Icon, but I doubt we will seen one for awhile the way things are going.

[Guest]

I like how some of you say you are a fan of the event and then basically are ok with Universal turning their back on their heritage. Its not about needing an icon or a central theme its about them showing that they care enough to not duplicate something we have seen before, whether they get the IP exactly right which is awesome, all they have to do is throw money towards creating them the way everyone has seen them... Original creations take time and thought and story to understand whats going on... So you make fun of HOS but the original houses they create are much harder to do then just injecting money into other peoples wallets... I wish people would stop arguing that IPs are a good thing, yes they are fun but they are not a good thing to have becausr as we've seen the A&D becomes complacent and things like Dracula Untold and From Dusk The Dawn: The El Ray Original series become ok. When IPs are done correctly they are amazing and yes I enjoy going through them but the current course is nothing if not troubling and for those of you who defend it really makes me think you dont really care about the event... of course this is my opinion.

Edited August 6, 2014 by MMMU

[Legacy]

I like how some of you say you are a fan of the event and then basically are ok with Universal turning their back on their heritage. Its not about needing an icon or a central theme its about them showing that they care enough to not duplicate something we have seen before, whether they get the IP exactly right which is awesome, all they have to do is throw money towards creating them the way everyone has seen them... Original creations take time and thought and story to understand whats going on... So you make fun of HOS but the original houses they create are much harder to do then just injecting money into other peoples wallets... I wish people would stop arguing that IPs are a good thing, yes they are fun but they are not a good thing to have becausr as we've seen the A&D becomes complacent and things like Dracula Untold and From Dusk The Dawn: The El Ray Original series become ok. When IPs are done correctly they are amazing and yes I enjoy going through them but the current course is nothing if not troubling and for those of you who defend it really makes me think you dont really care about the event... of course this is my opinion.

From an artistic and creative standpoint, it is just as if not more difficult to effectively convey something that people already have a reference of than something completely original. I'm getting tired of the "IPs aren't creative" argument, because it conveys an element of naivety regarding the creative process.

If you draw something original, nobody can really argue if it's "good" or not. They can argue if they like it or if it's effective. But if it's YOUR original creation, the only opinion that artistically matters is yours. You have final say. But if I ask you to draw a xenomorph (for example), then the approval process is complicated. Now there are necessary details that you have recognize and achieve so that, not only is the image "good," it's right. If you're argument then becomes "but they're reusing stuff from the IPs," then you're just being a contrarian. The whole point behind Universal is to experience IPs.

And feel free to challenge my "fandom." I've iterated numerous times my disappointment with the move away scaring to a more aesthetic event. That's why I don't attend anymore. That's more of an operational beef, not creative. I'm a fan of the necessary artistry and creative process involved even in the IPs. I'm also a fan of Universal Studios as a business and I want to see the business succeed. I hold no allegiance to the park of ten years ago, because it's a better park now. I also realize that my opinion doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. So, I really try to keep an objective viewpoint on all of this. Someone has to.

HHN succeeded because they did something nobody else did extremely well. Now, every event has icons and stories and canon. And their quality is improving. Guess what. HHN is still succeeding because they're doing what nobody can: Massively popular IPs brought to life using the same plans and molds used in the movies we love. If fanboys can't let go of nostalgia long enough to see just how massively amazing it is Universal is doing that now, that's their problem. Not Universal's.

[JDW]

It's more ability to adapt and accept change. Good things come in many packages and there is always a give and take. I see the event for it's good and now try not to focus on the shortcomings.

However, IP's are at the root of the event... repeated ones at that. how tired are Dracula, wolf man, mummy, zombies, and all the ideas that keep being passed on in horror? In fact how tired is the entertainment industry in general? Nothing but rehashes and reboots. AT LEAST universal still gives you original content while still doing a bang up job of recreating classics.

It all boils down to what is fun and what isn't. and despite all the TWD I've enjoyed the event the last few years a great deal.

[mystiquephreeq]

I wish people would stop arguing that IPs are a good thing, yes they are fun but they are not a good thing to have becausr as we've seen the A&D becomes complacent and things like Dracula Untold and From Dusk The Dawn: The El Ray Original series become ok. When IPs are done correctly they are amazing and yes I enjoy going through them but the current course is nothing if not troubling and for those of you who defend it really makes me think you dont really care about the event... of course this is my opinion.

I have to chime in on this part, because you used two IPs as examples that were used at the event prior.

Dracula (Untold or any other iteration of) is a well-known and well loved intellectual property that is a "founding father" of horror. You really can't get more fundamental and back to basics than Dracula. The houses he has been featured in have been well liked as well.

2005 Demon Cantina was well liked as well. It was an homage to FDtD. Allowing A&D to create a property they've already written a creative "love letter" to, isn't being complacent. It's understanding their passion. And letting A&D create their passions seems to work nicely (AWIL).

While I love icons, I love them when they make sense. Shoehorning an icon into a year with a lot of IPs just doesn't work for me. That includes the overall theme and icon for 2007. It just didn't work for me. 08 and 09 are the only years where the overall theme and backstory worked for me because everything made sense to me. All the other years, the icons were just a face for the event. They didn't truly connect for me. (Disclaimer: I did not attend in 05 and I'm only using years I've attended to judge.)

The heritage of HHN is bringing movies to life. Psycho, PUTs, Mummy, all the various "collage" houses. Allowing the event to grow and change, and accepting that "what the fans want isn't what the majority wants" is caring about the event. Without the massive appeal of IPs, the event can't keep growing. This is a business, and the first rule of business is to make money.

Beyond that, as Jeramy pointed out, there is nothing new under the sun. Rehashing ideas, themes, monsters, etc...well that's kinda hard not to do.

Ex: Everyone loves and uses 2008 has a huge original year, but how much of that year was truly "original"? Not much.

Path of the Wicked, Fractured Tales, Asylum in Wonderland, Scary Tales - IPs (public domain IPs but still IPs) with A&D's horror twist. I can't say a full "original" horror twist, because others had done twisted fairy tales before.

Interstellar Terror - A&D's homage to Event Horizon

The Hallow - A&D's homage to a The Halloween Tree

The Skoolhouse - A&D's homage to TrT.

Bloody Mary - a well known urban legend/folklore with an original twist. (I really good original twist, but still a twist to a known concept.)

American Gothic - a mixture of real life people and intellectual property.

Streets of Bloods/Body Collectors - the entire look of The Gentlemen is taken from Buffy.

Doomsday - an IP

That leaves Dead Exposure and Creatures as purely original ideas. (Someone else may know of something they can be linked to).

That's the other reason why I can't get annoyed by or bemoan the new direction the event has taken. I understand that originality is a vague concept that actually relies on reused and overused horror tropes and it all relies on the cycles of popularity.

[Guest kiwisoup]

I like how some of you say you are a fan of the event and then basically are ok with Universal turning their back on their heritage.[...] I wish people would stop arguing that IPs are a good thing, [...]and for those of you who defend it really makes me think you dont really care about the event.

I'm sorry, but I just have to say that this thread is a DISCUSSION as in an exchange of ideas and opinions. People have different opinions and have the ability to compare and contrast their opinions and make a case in an adult manner. Obviously people wouldn't be here if they weren't fans or didn't care about the event.

If you're gonna infer that people are not "pleasant" or not fans or don't "care about the event" because they don't share your opinion or get bent out of shape about it, maybe you can just go make a different thread to suit your needs because I think you're being pretty disrespectful. Opinions are not facts, people that don't share your opinion are not wrong, they just disagree.

Edited August 6, 2014 by kiwisoup

[clash]

And? HOS is in its 15th year, is an arguable step down in quality, and has nowhere near the resources available to do IPs (ie - none). HoS is where Universal was a decade ago in almost all facets. An icon is necessary when your big brother down the road can pick up the biggest names in horror.

Universal doesn't need icons now. Why is that (objectively) a bad thing?

it just kind of feels incomplete without it. I understand the event evolves and changes but it just feels incomplete without a main face. I just don't see what's so bad about having an icon. or why was it so hard for them to make icons for 2012 or 2013, since they were already coming up with characters for the streets anyways.

[JDW]

Talk to the uppers. A&D have some amazing icon ideas that have yet to see the light of day. There is one I've wanted to see since '08. They make new ones all the time. But, for whatever reason, they aren't allowed. My guess? TWD has been the focus and they want to reap maximum profits by having it be the focus. It's gone next year and it's the 25th anniversary. So we may get them back... unless something else takes the focus or the resign TWD. Honestly who knows. But my enjoyment of the event is not contingent on websites, themes, or icons... otherwise I wouldn't have faithfully gone to pre-iconic years as there were no icons and no internet.

[SeventyOne]

I have to chime in on this part, because you used two IPs as examples that were used at the event prior.

That leaves Dead Exposure and Creatures as purely original ideas. (Someone else may know of something they can be linked to).

A minor quibble with an excellent post, but it actually further proves your point--Creatures was a blatant homage/rip-off of the Tremors movies.

Also, "real"/licensed IPs have long been a part of HHN as well as the "inspired by" houses. Mummy, Fear Factor, Doomsday, etc. I think they aren't well-remembered because (1) the houses weren't great and (2) the IPs were relatively obscure so that people looking back on a list might not realize, say, "Curse of Mary Shaw" was actually a movie, not an original concept. (Mary Shaw actually was a very good house, btw, just using it as an example.)

[JDW]

A minor quibble with an excellent post, but it actually further proves your point--Creatures was a blatant homage/rip-off of the Tremors movies.

Weeeellll. More an adaptation of "The color from outer space" and Lovecraft in general.

Fun fact, Creatures! was originally supposed to be their interpritation of AWIL taking place at a redneck hunting lodge.

Later it became "Them Creatures!" and they just shortened it to "Creatures!"

If you saw my Cretures Refurbished Shirt design I incorporated the original title into the slogn

[ghostdude]

Universal "turning their backs on their heritage"? Now that's funny, because what universal does is bring movies to life, and last year is proof of that, AWIL, Cabin in the woods, Evil Dead where all epic compared to Havoc 2, and the 3d house.I'll just second Legacy and Mistique instead of rehasing what's already been said. Hell, if you look way back we had ip's no website, and no icons, so if anything, we're back where we started. Just because some of us don't hold on to nostalgia, and are ok with the evolution of hhn does not mean we "don't care" or are less "fans" then those crying that the sky's falling. The general public is not "coveted" they're simply the majority. One last thing, shoehorning icons doesen't work look at hhn 21, even hhn 20 where they had some story i recall almost everyone bashing Fear to death, hell the storyteller wasen't even supposed to be the icon, they cooked her up the last minute because of a surge in lost children, thus making cindy a bit "politically incorrect" for that time. I go because it's good fun with my friends and it's simply a time to escape reality for a few hours, not because some website icon, or backstory that turns meaningless when you cross the turnstiles.

Edited August 10, 2014 by ghostdude

[electraheart]

This thread is getting kindah sticky so I won't bash other peoples opinions or even shove mine into everyones face. However, I'd like to say this, I am a huge fan of HHN I've been living and breathing the stuff since 2006. I didn't go in 2006, but I found out about it on the website they had and as a huge addict for everything halloween I was reeled in. As for me, someone who isn't a florida resident and doesn't have the financial stability nor time for my family and I to go every October, I enjoyed the fact that the website could give me a little piece of HHN at home. Showing off everything in fun and creative ways. Also letting me interact with whoever the icon is and what the event was serving for that particular year. My only year going was 21 (the second weekend), I was very happy with Lady Luck (yes, her scare zone was horrid but the website was nice and) I liked how neat she kept the whole storyline of the event and why each house was there for the year (even though no scarezone really had a reason involving Lady Luck except for Grown Evil). Can anyone tell me why Lady Luck got/gets so much hate (other than the scarezone), I'm not understanding?

[JDW]

For anyone who thinks I am for the changes made this year I took the survey yesterday. Here is a screen shot of one of the questions I answered.

This was one of the nicest things I said actually. When it came to the "Do you agree" section and it stated "This website is the best Horror attraction site I ever seen" I almost broke my finger pressing the strongly disagree button.

I ripped the RHPS being back and the lack or a decent show in years (B&T is fine for your low brow humor but I would like something a little more intellectual and interesting), recommended a variiety act with comedy, horror, magic, and physical feats. I called the webistie dull, uninspired, and pointless. I also mentioned that I used to spend untold amounts of time on previous sites but now I don't even bother to go as there is nothing for me.

I mean, sure I understand why they are doing what they are doing, I can debate that they are soild business decisions, and even be okay with them for the most part.... But to throw specific questions at me like "what do you think of the theme?" or "Do you agree this is THE BEST HORROR ATTRACTION WEBSITE EVAR!!!!" Come on... I'm going to voice my opinion. They open themselves up to criticism. I do like the stories, icons, detailed website, and original content. I always have. I've just accepted the changes as what they are: Growing pains of the largest Halloween event in the country.

[JDW]

An interesting read on Home haunts vs corporate haunts (and if you haven't heard about the Radley House it's really cool). Being a home haunt builder It rings true with me.

I like this particular quote:

What, to your mind, is the singularly most vital detail to a successful haunt -- a certain fabric or sound effect? The overall layout and flow? The backstory to get guests in the mood?

MEACHAM: It sounds obvious, but the most vital detail in creating a haunted attraction is a good scare. The overall backstory, layout, and ambiance of the attraction is extremely important to a great haunted house experience, but when it comes down to it, if you don't have good, scary characters, you really don't have much. Guests experience a whole lot of anticipation when hearing about a haunted house, driving there, and waiting in line. If you fail to make all that worthwhile by scaring them, you've failed to do your job.

[Legacy]

An interesting read on Home haunts vs corporate haunts (and if you haven't heard about the Radley House it's really cool). Being a home haunt builder It rings true with me.

I like this particular quote:

Nailed it. And that's why HHN started to bore me. It just wasn't scary anymore.

[mystiquephreeq]

Radley is amazing! I loved it last year, and I only got to do the "behind the scenes" tour.

Do we have a thread for it?