Halloween Horror Nights (Hollywood) 2013 Speculation/Predictions

[Mr.HHN]

Something I read online says that Poe's Fall of the House of Usher has something to do with the 20th century Im not too sure but I do remember reading that on an article for a research paper.

[Mr.HHN]

... and the holiday tradition of "The Nutcracker" was influenced by Edgar Allan Poe's " The Murders in the Rue Morgue "

[Mr.HHN]

Poe was also born in Boston which is also a town in England.

[DTH316]

Mr HHN might be on to something!

[Mr.HHN]

"There is in Edgar Poe, so much of the ironist, the TRICKSTER, the player of games..."

[Stitch_101]

... and the holiday tradition of "The Nutcracker" was influenced by Edgar Allan Poe's " The Murders in the Rue Morgue "

Close, but wrong... firstly, you should have clarified "The Nutcracker" as the story by E.T.A. Hoffmann for which "The Nutcracker" ballet is based. At first glance I thought you meant the tradition of actual Christmas "soldier" Nutrackers, which of course date back to the 15th century and therefor couldn't be based on a Poe story. Secondly, The Murders In The Rue Morgue was NOT based on or inspired by The Nutcracker by E.T.A. Hoffmann. It was loosely inspired by a lesser known Hoffmann story called Das Fräulein von Scuderi, as well as the novel Zadig by Voltaire... Sorry to throw a wrench in that line of speculation.

[ferox]

Well Poe is a pretty good guess. I would imagine it would be suggested to Murdy since Orlando did a Poe house and it went over well, but it's possible that isn't the case.

As for the holiday thing...

"Rituals...hmmm....I suppose there could be one of those. Pretty common in horror. There's a ritual in "Trickster...related to the holiday tradition."

The Poe toaster thing might be the ritual? That started to happen on 1949...

Giving tribute to the dead is centered around a lot of holiday traditions...

Well. Looks believable to me.

I have thought for a while that "John" was John Waters...so there's the Baltimore connection.

So far a Poe maze seems to make the most sense. There's also the "calispeak" thing about Trickster though...

http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/native_american-mythology.php?deity=RAVEN

Alright...so a Raven is known as a Trickster God...

If this turns out to be true...and this maze really is as brutal as Murdy makes it out to be...YES YES YES.

But...to rain a bit on my own parade...

Eh...doesn't really sound like a maze concept that Orlando did.

I do think that there's something to do with that raven though...it would make a lot more sense for this to be an original maze of some kind. Given all that he's given plenty of pretty specific hints. but none really make sense or an IP.

Edited May 2, 2013 by ferox

[CreatureFeature]

What if it's in the HOH? Right now there's Gothic/Victorian/early 20th century scenes standing. A medieval scene could be worked into there...

It would be good misdirection to put a HOH maze as the first one he gives a codename for. Maybe this year he's *really* going to kick it up a notch...I would love to see that. There's so much space to work with in there that it could become something amazing.

But then you have to still ask what the theme is. And it's just a theory for a codename that I'm baffled by.

This is actually making a lot of sense with the existing HOH set pieces -- the Victorian era fitting everything from the Phantom, Nosferatu, Dracula, Frankenstein and the Wolf Man, and Mother Bates being the 1950s (considering PSYCHO was released in 1960, so any backstory would be earlier in the 1950s.

What doesn't fit so neatly (yet) are the medieval era (5th to 15th century) and the early 20th century, which seems to miss the mark for nearly every Universal horror monster/franchise in studio history. As noted, these sets/eras could somehow be modified as an overlay onto HOH, but to what purpose or story is still unknown.

But at least an overlay of HOH makes a lot more sense than building a new maze from scratch and THEN including all four of those eras in it -- or at least, it makes more sense to me. I've been racking my brain over the time periods and I'll be damned if I can figure out any existing, well-known horror IP that fits ALL FOUR of those eras neatly and exactly without straying from the known franchise (which kind of missed the whole point of adapting an IP for HHN).

For the moment, I'm going to pretend that "Trickster" is an overlay of HOH ... which we can almost guarantee Murdy HAS to use this year with all the missing maze areas due to construction. Okay, so let's pretend HOH will host "Trickster" for the moment...

What other aspects does "Trickster" have, according to the clues?

• It's a new idea, never suggested since Murdy's been doing HHN
• It's something Murdy grew up with, so it existed and was in his life anywhere from the late 1960s through the '70s, let's say
• It's a "very dark" subject matter
• One of the scenes is inspired by something Murdy (and others) had to do as kids in school, but apparently kids don't do it anymore
• Something about the maze reminds Murdy of a holiday tradition, "a pretty standard one for most people"
• A book "strangely inspired" this maze

I'll start with the "very dark" subject matter. Doesn't that sound like the polar (welcome?) opposite theme to Monster Remix that took over HOH last year? Murdy tried an entirely new direction and perhaps many would argue it didn't quite pay off. But he tried and I applaud that. What if Murdy flips the script and goes very dark in the HOH maze this year? He's probably got to do something with HOH in 2013 and...now for something completely different from 2012.

Half the set design fits his specs, and HOH goes very dark instead of disco-light. It makes sense.

So I started thinking out of the box... taking it in a different direction like Murdy might be doing. What if those eras and settings don't have anything to do with a "popular" IP at all, but the times are connected for some historical reason?

I did some research and the only way I can connect those four very different eras is through one common factor that's well known if you know history: illness and epidemics.

• In the medieval era the Black Plague killed 1/3 of Europe
• In the Victorian era, a Cholera epidemic killed thousands
• In the early 20th century, the Spanish Flu infected 500 million worldwide and killed 50-100 million
• In the 1950s, the Polio epidemic affected thousands

Given Murdy's approximate age, it's likely he grew up in the later aftermath of Polio outbreaks -- and if he was in elementary school during the 1960s, I'll bet he grew up with vaccinations *at school* against such childhood diseases. I know I did. It's quite possible that such immunization programs are no longer handled in public schools today (which Murdy seems to be guessing about as well). Something he did as a kid that kids don't do in school anymore... check?

Here's the kicker: back in the day, Polio vaccinations went from being given in a shot in the 1950s to a more effective oral vaccine in the 1960s. Basically the doctor drops the vaccine on your tongue in liquid form and you swallow it. If you're Catholic (and I think Murdy's family background at least is Catholic), then an oral vaccine might remind you of taking Communion at the holidays (or other masses) but swallowing a wafer instead of medicine.

Okay, I could be totally wrong and off base with this epidemic theme, but it's the best I've come up with that fits the most clues -- except knowing the IP the maze is based on! But IF we got close enough fitting a maze overlay theme onto HOH for this year, it might lead us to discovering the IP that ties it all together.

Also, Murdy said a book "strangely inspired" the "Trickster" maze. Going back to an idea I proposed a while ago, I think the Bible is a good guess at the inspiring book Murdy alludes to in the clue. From that YouTube video on Murdy's childhood scares, it's clear that the apocalyptic scenes and images from the Bible not only terrified him as a kid (recurring nightmares, a priest was called in to 'exorcise' him), but it's had a profound influence on his HHN design career too! He uses bits of it as inspiration in many of his mazes including ACGTH last year. It's also something he very much grew up with. Oh, and the Bible appears to be a fairly well known IP with lots of famous characters, if you want to go that route! haha!

Okay, it's probably not a maze based ON the Bible as an IP, but inspired by it. If any of the above works or fits, can we find an IP (novel, movie, TV series) that centers on a plague, epidemic or apocalypse?

My first thought was Stephen King's THE STAND, but I don't think it's set in any of those historic eras at all. Not filled with really popular characters either, outside of King's devoted fans, and it's a fairly "old" IP in terms of pop culture. So, what other IP might fit an apocalyptic maze theme that recurs again and again over those four eras with nightmarish visions of death and destruction... and could any theme be darker than the apocalypse?

Probably not the answer to the clues, but it might spark some new guesses from you guys.

Edited May 2, 2013 by CreatureFeature

[ferox]

I'd be more into the Biblical book theory if he didn't do a maze inspired on his religious fears last year, and then did a talk about that maze this year.

I do like the vaccine theory though. There might be something there.

Also, according to Murdy, Remix got the best reviews of any HOH overlay.

Edited May 2, 2013 by ferox

[Avila]

Hmmm you think if we just asked Murdy if he's giving us HoH codename he'd tell us, considering that he's hasn't done so before?

And at schools we are still required to have vaccine shots in k-12, so that theory can't be it :\

[ferox]

1."Trivia" was the codename for Wolfman in 2011. 2011 was the first year for codenames.

2. Even if he didn't, Murdy does things for the first time every year.

3. Something being required for school is not the same as doing something at school.

[Stitch_101]

Hmmm you think if we just asked Murdy if he's giving us HoH codename he'd tell us, considering that he's hasn't done so before? And at schools we are still required to have vaccine shots in k-12, so that theory can't be it :\

Your right about schools still requiring vaccine shots, but that's not only what he meant. Back in that time, with the Polio vaccine, it's was taken to schools all over and administered to children in their schools as part of a campaign to stop the spread of Polio. Today, it is almost never heard of vaccines of any kind being administered in schools (this could probably be chalked up to the legal climate me live in today), and instead is up to the parents to insure that they receive it from the family doctors before starting school. So, something that kids used to do in school that they don't anymore: recieve vaccines. Not to say I believe thats where all the hints are pointing, cause I'm still unsure, but I can understand how his reasoning fits the hints.

[Avila]

Oh I'm sorry, I had completely forgotten by that code name.

And what I meant that it is required by law that students have certain vaccinenes to attend even public schools other wise they can't attend the school. Last year I was removed from school because I was missing certain shots, they told me I couldn't return until I had got them

[Avila]

Oh I had posted my last post while you posted yours stitch sorry but what your saying is a good point and if that's the case then the Polio vaccine can be that something kids used to do back then that they don't do anymore

Why don't you guys try asking your parents of things everyone would do back then when they were young that kids don't do today (assuming they're around murdy's age). I'd ask mine but they are foreigners, so it would more then likely differ a lot!

[ferox]

Another possible thing re: trickster and the England/America is Winchester...the name of the church Poe is buried.

Also, it's the name of a shotgun. Which could be related to the Evil Dead/Army of Darkness speculation.

[Stitch_101]

The only other thing I've been able to come up with that children did in schools during those times that they don't anymore (and forgive me if it's been said, but I haven't been as attentive to the forum as I use to be) is the "duck and cover" Civil Defense drills they used in schools from the 1950's to the late 80's in case of a nuclear attack. Of course fear of nuclear war was extremely high back then, and it was common for family's to build fallout shelters in or around there homes.

Now I don't see a connection with that to some of the other hints though... Anyone have any ideas?

Edited May 2, 2013 by Stitch_101

[ferox]

Yeah duck and cover is what struck me right away with that hint. There could be a scene of somebody hiding under something?

There's of course school prayer, if the Satanic/occult thing is true.. There's chalkboards...as in fingernails on the chalkboards. Could be some room with a loud screeching sound.

[CreatureFeature]

Your right about schools still requiring vaccine shots, but that's not only what he meant. Back in that time, with the Polio vaccine, it's was taken to schools all over and administered to children in their schools as part of a campaign to stop the spread of Polio. Today, it is almost never heard of vaccines of any kind being administered in schools (this could probably be chalked up to the legal climate me live in today), and instead is up to the parents to insure that they receive it from the family doctors before starting school. So, something that kids used to do in school that they don't anymore: recieve vaccines.

Yes, that is the distinction between then and today. The research I did seemed to indicate that such vaccinations happen privately now with family doctors (sometimes even before kids start school) instead of being given in the public school system. And IF you buy my theory at all, this relates specifically to the Polio vaccine, not all vaccines, since it's an epidemic that peaked in the 1950s per the clue. Polio vaccinations were still a big medical priority in the 1960s because: one the newer oral vaccine worked really well in stopping the epidemic, and two ALL kids had to get it to keep Polio from returning as an epidemic. That's why it was done in public schools, because it was a national health priority... different from getting kids' usual set of vaccines. They had to make sure no kids got missed.

Again, my guess could be all wrong, but that was the unique aspect of the Polio vaccine tied to the 1950s, something done in schools then and not now, etc.

Yes, that was actually the first 1950s/things Murdy did in school idea too, but I couldn't relate it back to the other three eras at all so I set it aside. The WW3 threat and nuclear annihilation certainly fits the "apocalyptic" idea of my theory as a broader theme, but then Murdy would need to create three other time-specific ideas of apocalypse to fit the earlier eras... and what popular IP with known characters fits that? That's where I got stuck, so I reversed the process and picked a common trait to all those time periods first.

[Freak]

Hey guys, an update on the sound stage speculation:

My father, who works at Universal, had the privilege of having a Cinco de Mayo lunch inside of Stage 28. He said that they usually have the annual lunch for their studio employees at a parking lot on the backlot, but they decided this year to have it in Stage 28. I saw a picture and the floor looks very cleared-out; only tables and chairs that they can very easily move out of.

Normally the stage is too busy to house something like this, but not this year. Also, the floor is clear. I wonder why....

[Mr.HHN]

More on the Poe theory. By never done before at HHN since Poe was at Orlando Murdy and his canary ways could be saying never featured at HHN he could mean a sound stage or an effect.

600 Posts!

[ferox]

I would freak out if I got to walk into Stage 28. All of the history there...Perkins, Hitchcock, Karloff, Chaney, Lugosi, Miles, Leigh...wow.

[horror lover]

If it's a soundstage maze, then it's about time!! Even better that it's in SS 28... But where would the queue go?

[ferox]

Where the old transformers overflow went.

[Stitch_101]

Hey guys, an update on the sound stage speculation: My father, who works at Universal, had the privilege of having a Cinco de Mayo lunch inside of Stage 28. He said that they usually have the annual lunch for their studio employees at a parking lot on the backlot, but they decided this year to have it in Stage 28. I saw a picture and the floor looks very cleared-out; only tables and chairs that they can very easily move out of. Normally the stage is too busy to house something like this, but not this year. Also, the floor is clear. I wonder why....

While I hope this is good news for HHN, I do have to wonder if maybe its cleared out and awaiting a new production to move in? We are moving into TV pilot season as well nearing the start of filming for series that pick back up in the fall. So I will say I'm cautiously optimistic for now

[ferox]

Remember, Murdy said this about Trickster's IP.

all I can right now is that it would be something we've never done before...or anyone for that matter.

A pretty solid denial for anything Orlando has done...pretty solid. So it's pretty solid that Trickster isn't Poe. I'd love to be wrong about that though. Especially if it's really as brutal as Murdy promises. The Nevermore maze seemed pretty tame.