The Future of the Lower Lot During HHN...

[DTH316]

Murdy's already been talking about it on Twitter in his usual "it's happening but I can't say it just yet" kinda way. Sorry guys, but it's true!

There's no space down there for a giant line like there will be and that's the closest thing. The JP area is already clogged for JP and the JP queue maze with the exit being where the bathrooms are. Then there's the Backdraft queue, which is pretty small for the amount of people that'll be running to Transformers. Which then begs the question, where would the line for the Mummy queue maze go as simply just down that stretch of street isn't enough, as we've seen in previous years once it hits about 9 PM. Can't put anyone in those streets or going across the streets to the sound stages since carts for productions need to drive through, handicap buses, etc.. Also it puts people too close to restricted access of the sets.

Update: Found some tweets - -

@HorrorNights Does Transformers have an extended que? If so, probably a maze location in the future?

Its the queue we use for the maze behind mummy

@HorrorNights What was that scarezone you weren't able to do last year because of La Llorona? Why weren't you able to do it this year?

Didn't work out, developed lots we haven't used.

@HorrorNights Is it possible for next year?

I would imagine Transformers will be very popular when it opens so no

Sounds like Murdy is anticipating Transformers to pretty much overrule the back half of the lower lot. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we see some type of robotic-type scarezone down there next year. Or maybe that's what the "industrial" Reapers are for :-/. I suppose someone can straight out ask on twitter.

Edited September 1, 2011 by DTH316

[Freak]

When Transformers opens next year, I would assume they would move the Mummy maze venue to another venue.

[DTH316]

Yeah, I really don't see Transformers NOT being a hit at next year's HHN and I really do see them utilizing all queue space possible, which as some of us know, is going to Mummy's old extended.

I mean, think of how big King Kong was for the Studio Tour last summer and this summer, having lines go UP the escalator. That's JUST King Kong! A small FRACTION of the Studio Tour! This is TRANSFORMERS. One of the BIGGEST franchises EVER that kids and adults alike love.

The ride opens in either the spring or summer of 2012, which in theme park time is really close to HHN. Lines for this baby are going to be HUGE for the next 2 years, without a doubt. And the HHN crowd is going to gobble it up. Lines just for King Kong (remember, it was JUST King Kong, not even the rest of the Studio Tour or even the Terror Tram!) for HHN were pretty big and that was a super high capacity attraction. So now imagine Transformers, arguably a bigger fanbase and a more current film, more geared towards the younger crowds and will probably be a much better attraction with a lower hourly capacity being in it's first couple of months of opening RIGHT where a HHN venue is being used.

Now, no doubt HHN makes money but this has been Universal's baby for the last half of the decade. Basically it's a "screw HHN, we need to focus on Transformers in this area because we just spent near $300 million building it and another $180 million advertising it" situation (note: not the actual numbers haha). Make no mistake, I'm sure the JP queue maze will still be there, along with JP and Mummy still operating but with that extended queue at Transformers' disposal and the expected numbers to be coming in, we're losing a maze venue for the next year or 2 folks. We also can't really count on Transformers having a large indoor queue either. As big as that building is, I'm sure most of it is needed for the actual ride and mechanics. I really wouldn't be surprised if they said "no lower lot scarezone, we're focusing on Transformers, you're lucky we even let you have a maze down there."

And with that also said, if you thought there were injustices in management this year, just wait until next year. Do you really think they'll sell a front of the line pass to their newest, hottest and most in demand attraction and most expensive ride on the west coast since Indiana Jones at Disneyland for a measly $69? No way, Jose. Expect that number to either skyrocket or for the FOL price to be an add on like Orlando. Also expect general admission to be absolutely way higher. Frequent Fear Pass? Fans won't have their say this time around. Best you'll get is a 2 day pass for maybe about 25% off.

Hopefully Murdy is looking into other locations for a maze. But if what he was saying in the past is true, we might just have to settle for 5 locations next year. But then again, I don't know what they're planning with the HOH. If it were me, I'd rip out all that was in there and have back-to-back mazes in there next year. Just have it stop somewhere in the middle with a little break then bam, the next maze begins. I don't know how much space that is or if that's even practical but I think it'd be a good solution if possible. It's a really long maze, so I imagine it's the size of two mazes already anyway. In all honesty, I don't care. 5 mazes is enough for me, I'm not greedy considering the event started with just 2 (or as Murdy would say, 1 and a half). And a new high profile ride will surely take up my time next year so I don't even know if another maze is practical for time issues if people were to truly try to get everything done in one night, even if they hit the lower lot first.

Now I may be totally blowing this out of proportion and they might have a plan but we can't really say until we hear it directly from the horse's mouth.

Edited September 2, 2011 by DTH316

[Tmrw]

@HorrorNights Does Transformers have an extended que? If so, probably a maze location in the future?

Its the queue we use for the maze behind mummy

Well after looking on Google Earth and seeing where we could possibly FIX this problem,

There are infact a few suggestions

If this is the last year for Mummy Extended then thats fine. BUT, and its a giant one at that

There are many possibilities for having a 2nd maze within the lower lot. Or just another maze in general.

Lets look at some options

Option 1) If JP Extended Que is in use again for next year

why not have the next maze where the Backdraft (Idk why i wanna call it Disaster!) que line is.

Point being, next year they put up BIG walls blocking some of the Que and building the Maze within that part of the Que.

Both the EQ of Mummy and the outer lines (where we normally line up) can be used to fit people for Transformers.

Option 2) Theres always room within the park that just hasnt been truly looked at, or has been but hasnt been put to use.

In Example: Close HALF of the JP Que for Maze Room and leave the rest open for Guests.

They could use the old Waterworld/Slauterworld Extended I talked about twice, once here and once on the vault.

If it permits, I really hope they wont due to safety hazards, they could pull a 1990's move and place a maze in one of the parking structures.

They Could use Parts of the open area in Coke Zone and move off exiting T2 guests

Maze on the Backlots (POSSIBILITY)

Maybe if Western isnt done on time, they can place a maze inside!

hell theres 1000s of places that can be done, as long as it meets all requirements the team is looking for.

So please dont give up too much hope yet, Maybe if we're lucky they'll close down a ride for us come June of 2012 and use the Que for a Maze

[Trevler]

I would be surprised if they use the Mummy's extended queue for Transformers. To get from there to the new location, you do have to pass through that long backstage area and I just don't see them doing that for daily operations. There was already a pretty extensive queue if you combined Backdraft and the Effects Show queue, and no doubt they've taken queue construction into consideration when building this attraction. There will prob- be a significant amount of queue thats inside the show building as well, like that big switchback portion on the mummy.

[DTH316]

So do ya think Murdy is sayin that the Mummy queue is just an "in case everyone on the planet shows up" extended-extended queue? haha

[Trevler]

Yes.

[Freak]

Well, now that I have gotten some of my things out of the way today, I may finally comment on this.

To resonate on what DTH said, assuming that Transformers will be open during HHN next year, this sounds like it'll be the last year we will have a maze in the Mummy overflow area (At least for a while); not to mention that this will probably be the last year we will have two mazes in the lower lot. Now if this is the case next year, they will look for a make-up location for the Mummy venue maze. With the event growing as rapidly as it is, management is going to look for ways to keep the sixth maze and have the new ride remain open during the event to raise capacity as much as possible. If they took the lazy step and decided to just downsize the event down to five mazes, that would be a big step backwards in expansion and wouldn't make park capacity any higher, meaning less $$$$. That would also leave a really bad taste in the mouths of fans and the general public alike. Just imagine: "WHAT!?!? You've raised the admission price and you're cutting back on the amount of mazes?! YOU GREEDY PIGZ!!!!!!!" Simply put, they have to find a make-up location for the Mummy venue if they're going to have Transformers open.

Now the inevitable question has sprouted: "If they have to find a replacement location for the Mummy venue, then where on earth would they put it?" They do have the space. It's only an issue of managing it properly. Here are some possibilities here:

1) Not realistic at all, but they could rent a sound stage right next to Transformers. The queue for the ride itself wouldn't be much of a problem since they have the Backdraft and former SES queue AND queue inside the building. They could even have some of the overflow go in front of the building on peak nights (Like how Saw was set up). They could have the soundstage maze queue go where Mummy was and then go down to the stage, set up big walls like Orlando does to restrict the guests forbidden access to the rest of the lot, and have some overflow next to the stage. There are two big problems here: First of all, they would have to rent the stage out like any other movie studio; it would cost so much money, it just wouldn't be worth it for management. Second and lastly, they are used quite often for filming. I could see it in the distant future when the event gets really popular and then they may consider a major expansion in that area, but for now, it's not going to happen. Period.

2) Have Terror Tram load in the Jurassic Park queue and have two mazes set up where the tram garage is. This would really increase park capacity, but the only problem is that the Tram would have to drive a loooooooong way to get to the drop-off location. We haven't even considered what the trek back would be like. It would be so ridiculous, the guide would be forced to tell several bad jokes and show several filler videos on the way back to avoid awkward silence (King Kong Express, anybody?). The same case would apply to the on-board video on the way to the site. They would have to spend a lot more money in production budget to shoot the on-board video and queue, if they are able to work out splitting up the JP and Terror Tram queue videos. It would basically be at the point to where it just wouldn't be worth it financially.

3) Have the maze go in the tram garage while the Terror Tram stays where it is. Now this would be a bit of a challenge, but they would manage. What they could do is have a queue/exit area lined up where the tram exit normally is. Have an attendant direct foot traffic and let them cross the tramway when clear. Whenever there would be a tram in the way, they could have them stop, or have security/attendants lead guests around the parked tram to where they are supposed to go. The FotL could start after people have crossed the tram area and have the maze go in there. Yes, this sounds like it would be very confusing at first, but they could manage if they do it right. The only downside is that it would most likely be another "black tent" maze and would only allow a smaller-scale facade which would be a down-step from the lower lot's facade.. Maybe they could work it out to where they could have the maze set up with the big facade but not allow the maze walls to "show beyond the facade". They can figure it out.

4) Have a maze in the WaterWorld queue area. Queue area would not be a problem if they used overflow for the front of the normal show entrance, around, and inside the show arena. If you find that hard to believe, look on Google maps, you will notice that there is plenty of room for the queue. There would only be two problems here: 1) Trying to manage the daytime WaterWorld queue while the maze is in the normal queue. Simple. Just have overflow wait outside the side gates of the show and down towards the restrooms. It would look a bit congested, but it could work. The second issue would most-likely relate to either 2014 or 15 when WW will eventually be replaced with a new ride. Now we have to find a new location for the maze. By that time, the novelty of Transformers will have died down, allowing more tolerable lines. Maybe they could work something out with the Mummy venue again by then. They could also use the tram garage suggestion like I just mentioned, but then there's...

5) The Frankenstein parking garage. Steven had brought this up earlier, but this is basically a no-go since they will need as much parking as they can get. Not to mention it would interfere with the T2 area line.

Those are just some make-up locations I could come up with to make up for the Jurassic maze. Remember how Murdy is pushing for a seventh maze next year if budget will allow? I honestly hope not. Right now, I'm more concerned about keeping the maze amount where it is and having all-new content. Guess we'll have to see.

In my heart of hearts, I really wouldn't be heart-broken if the Mummy area was no longer used. I always find the Mummy area to be a creative burden. Sure, the facade is always great, but the maze layout will always be the same and it only allows "one-location environments". It never really allows the environments to follow a natural flow of the locations. It has to go with the "work straight up" layout. So maybe this location change will be for the better at our event, should it come to this.

[Zombie_Fury]

I could see them just wanting to move the Mummy Maze to another location to try and make it less chaotic down there. While I'm sure it is possible to have two mazes down there with transformers, I'm pretty sure universal doesnt want the crowds that come with all of them in one place. If we think about it, out of the three current rides universal has, two are on the lower lot, and its soon to be three down there. I think they know the lower lot will be able to hold on its own with just one maze and scarezone down there with transformers drawing in the crowds, but by no way do I think a new ride justifies losing a maze. I'm hopeful though that they wont have a problem finding it a new home in the upper-lot.

On a side note though, I dont feel transformers is going to have any real significant change in admission prices like some have speculated. When most parks open a new attractions prices stay the same or go up slightly, I cant imagine the GP's reaction to going to universal this last summer and showing up next year and being asked to pay 10-20 dollars more then the year previous. HHN might just have a flat admission rate instead of the discount nights due to it selling out so often, but I have a feeling that may come from this years numbers versus the opening of transformers.

[DTH316]

Well I don't know, I remember a time where Universal used to be relatively cheap at about $59 not even 2 or so years ago. Now GA is $77 (ignoring the multi-day passes, APs and etc). And nothing except King Kong has really been added to Universal in that two year timeline. Usually when Disneyland ups their prices, Universal has been following suit and Disneyland has been doing it usually in August and I think around April, even if it is a $2 increase, which by the time Transformers opens, will make Universal somewhere over the $80 line. And if they just make it one flat admission for HHN, like you said, without the discounted nights, that's a HUGE difference. For example, I just paid $37 for opening night as oppose to their regular price of $62. Push that up $4, that's $66, a $29 dollar increase more than what I paid the previous year! Transformers is going to be huge... and we have to expect Universal to act like a company to capitalize on it's popularity... and I definitely think it's going to CHANGE HHN next year in more ways than one.

[Zombie_Fury]

I wonder if maybe we will see a more confined scare zone focused mainly near jurassic park to keep people from crowding more than already planned around transformers. This way when people get out of transformers they are gonna wanna rush right over to jurassic to see the SZ. Just an idea

[zombieman]

Well I don't know, I remember a time where Universal used to be relatively cheap at about $59 not even 2 or so years ago. Now GA is $77 (ignoring the multi-day passes, APs and etc). And nothing except King Kong has really been added to Universal in that two year timeline. Usually when Disneyland ups their prices, Universal has been following suit and Disneyland has been doing it usually in August and I think around April, even if it is a $2 increase, which by the time Transformers opens, will make Universal somewhere over the $80 line. And if they just make it one flat admission for HHN, like you said, without the discounted nights, that's a HUGE difference. For example, I just paid $37 for opening night as oppose to their regular price of $62. Push that up $4, that's $66, a $29 dollar increase more than what I paid the previous year! Transformers is going to be huge... and we have to expect Universal to act like a company to capitalize on it's popularity... and I definitely think it's going to CHANGE HHN next year in more ways than one.

I don't see Transformers affecting the price of HHN. It will probably not be included in the FOTL ride list, but it's not uncommon for a new ride to be excluded from such a pass for the first year. Hell, X2 is STILL an add-on to a FLashplass at Magic Mountain after 5 years. Prices are on the rise around the US. The government says that we aren't seeing inflation, but the fact is that we see it all around us. I think the the parks are going to milk as much out of us as they can get away with.