homelessjogger
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Posts posted by homelessjogger
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Royal Pacific. My buddy and I travel down from Wisconsin each year. This is our...11th year now I think. Stayed at RP the last 4 and it's been, by far, the best experience we've had with resort, breakfast, staff, and walking/water taxi. Before that we stayed at Hard Rock for 5 or 6 of the years which was awesome but it wore out its welcome after awhile.
We stayed offsite the first year but had to deal with shuttles, lines, wasted time, etc. It was cheaper but in the end we experienced far less each day in the park. We stay 5 days each year. With onsite we get the fast pass during the day and can ride everything 10-15x in a row if we want. It's pretty amazing.
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Did anyone see that Universal picked up the film rights to Stephen King's Tommyknockers?
With King being so against the usage of his properties at events like HHN, and the rumors circling about his reaction/feedback to The Shining last year or IT this year, it may not only be smart play from the film side with the resurgence of King in theatres, but also an interesting way to force King into a working relationship with Universal. If they can create a stellar film it opens the door for a larger relationship with him over the next 3-5 years.
Edit: I just saw TheRobCat's post from the previous page - keeping this here as no one reacted to it.
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Homelessjogger, Express for HHN is one of the single most profitable parts of the event, seeing as how on certain nights it costs more than the event admission itself.
That being said, last year when I was a house attendant, I remember getting notified on several occasions that Express has sold out for the night.
Coupling the fact that last year was was their best year attendance wise, with the fact that we are already doing MANY MANY times better this year, it's highly unlikely that they will be giving one of their most profitable sources of income away for free anytime soon.
I figured as much. We've been attending HHN for about 10 years now and only recently began staying onsite about 4 years ago.
The express pass lines seem to be longer and longer each year so what you said makes total sense. It's extremely profitable. We've never had to use them before as we go 3-4 times during out stay and can make up any missed houses the next night. That being said, the Halloween house last year was the longest line we've ever waited in to go through a second time (3+ hours). An express pass would have been worth it for that alone
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Do you think they will ever give on-site hotel guests express passes for HHN like they do during the day for both parks (sans Harry Potter)?
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As JDW said, it would be easy to keep us occupied and happy with only a little work. Someone in A&D would be happy to take up an alias on a social media account and gives us clues, puzzles, etc. And they best part is, they wouldn't have to pay a single penny to do this. Unfortunately, in the eyes of the company, the event is doing just fine so why even bother with it?
Even though "it's that easy" it's really not. Even then things that get published need to get reviewed, approved, and go through legal before making its way to us in any form. So unless they sign off on not having to go through typical procedure on these things, the cost is too high to justify it. Just an hour long meeting with specific action items afterward can end up costing the company thousands, or even tens of thousands of dollars to get it to us.
Corporations are bloated when it comes to making decisions and being cost-effective. Which is why it's hard to see any change being made. Even if you have a department that is incredibly passionate, wiling, and presenting brilliant ideas day after day, year after year, being part of such a huge company impedes that from seeing the light of day. Which is why so many people end up leaving to start their own independent companies, go to other places that promise to give them more control, etc.
Also, Legacy, everything about the business side of things you said in your last post is spot on. Getting people in the park is key. Like a movie theatre the ticket prices aren't the big ticket item to drive revenue. It's the food, the merchandise, etc. Which is why they had LT merchandise could buy with your symbol on it, etc. It's really smart but they just lack the time, upper-management buy-in, or budget (or all three).
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Although it has been about 5 years now, Universal Studios was very open to creatively marketing their events and new rides. I was very deep in negotiations with handling some of Hollywood's digital marketing, mini sites, etc for announcements like King Kong, HHN, etc. It was an enlightening time to see how the wheels turned there.
I don't follow the details of staffing changes, or executive changes, like some of you do but like Legacy and JDW said things have changed a lot. There was a reason for that change. Maybe 10 years from now someone will make a documentary about HHN et al and showcase the journey, community, and evolution of the vent (good or bad) through the years.
Also, my keyboard randomly doesn't type the letter 'e'. I didn't purposely call HHN a vent numerous times...
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I think you're both on point here. I do remember back when wearing a vault shirt to the vent meant something. Actors would be able to engage with you much more than rules would allow. Those events created the aura of what HHN is to me. It's definitely long gone and no longer exists. My last experience with HHN was 2 years ago walking through a basically empty Walking Dead house before closing. It was a polar opposite experience. Which is probably why I didn't make the effort to go last year.
I will be going this year because the theme park itself has so much to offer since I've been there last. Without that, I'm not really certain I would make the trek to Orlando from Wisconsin and spend a week there like I did in the past.
Even with all of that in mind, pulling back a bit, the event does look like a top quality event. Especially for non-jaded types.
You guys were more in tune with the goings-on with HHN and probably have a lot of great personal stories (that's awesome you met your wife there, Legacy). For people like you, and me to a lesser extent, it's about the community and coming together. In a way, it's like old people getting together to talk about the better days when things weren't such a joke. But replace prices, kids these days, the war, etc with HHN.
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Agree with 100% of what you just said.
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Priority 1 is revenue or the event will slowly be cut off. All decisions stem from that. That's just business. How are customers viewing the event? What can we do differently? Can we make it better? They listen. But the small group that has gone for a decade or more aren't their main demographic. They can't appease everyone at all angles. They try to each year with well known public IPs like the Walking Dead and then also try to appease us with things like Aliens, Halloween, original content, etc.
They're definitely trying to do it all. I just don't think it gets noticed enough.
I work with big companies like this all the time. It's a lot more complicated than even the smartest of us think it is from the outside. And I know you, JDW, know more than the general people do. Just seems to be more of a personal hurt on your end because it seems like you do understand some of the business decisions being made too from the years we've chatted on these boards (and previous boards).
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And that is why they will not change it. Why bother making interactive sites, backstories, Icons, interesting marketing if they feel they will get people in the park simply by promoting certain IPs? That is the formula now. The IPs bring the crowds. All the debate over whether any of those things are needed is pointless. Universal feels the current paradigm works. We will get TWD as long as they feel it is still bringing in people. If they feel people will come with repeating houses... then they will repeat houses. Likewise, Lady Luck bombed so that means no Icons.
My point is the art form (at least in the grand scheme) has been replaced by bean counters. They allow the art when they feel it will generate the most revenue. That is what makes me disapointed. Because it translates into safe decisions, bland marketing, and things repeating over and over when they work. The gutsy, innovative risks are gone. In this paradigm, it doesn't matter if it will even be good. So long as it brings people in and they don't repeat the mistake if it bombs. If it does, well they just fall back on the fans who will come no matter what because... well they can. Yet when things are doing great they will turn around on those same fans and disregard them.
Look, I'm excited about the event as much as everyone else. But that is because I like what is being presented already (for the most part). They don't have to sell me on an Alien house of any kind. But for every Alien house there is an equally disapointing Doomsday.
I've been every year but 2004. I've seen the trends. I just feel like a little spark has been extinguished. Will it kill the event? No. Will it stop me from going? No (currently anyway) Does it mean I like the current trend? Heck no.
Still when they run out of blockbusters to turn into houses, they've repeated and bled dry everything that brings they blind masses in, and people get sick of it. Then it may change... or fold depending on if they feel it's worth it.
Art does not equal business. You guys seem to compare what you think is best versus the arc of the industry itself. Successful marketing is entirely about context. Your Kool-Aid reference was funny but true on some levels. What's inside is exactly the same. If people have an underlying expectation that an event will be high quality (award winning year after year, good experiences, word of mouth from friends, etc) they could put up a white billboard with the name and a few IP logos and people would come. That's how this works.
From a business standpoint it doesn't make sense to spend more money to bring in the same amount of people. If 1% of the people, essentially this message board, complain but still go what's the point? Even if you guys didn't go it wouldn't matter. They have focus groups, user testing, data analytics, and behavioral metrics that showcase to them what works. We're only guessing and complaining because it might not align with what we want as an individual or small group. We don't know the business logic. It's clearly working. They are producing profit, word of mouth AND winning awards. There is no sense in changing that at all. They do change the formula a little each year, try new things, etc. Some work, some fail. But it's still a good experience.
Point is, are you going to the event? Why are you going? If there is one reason, one house, one situation you are going for they did their job and did it well. It's a pipe dream to expect one person will love all the decisions they make. That's just not reality.
It's an awesome event even if some of the houses don't turn out. It's a great value for the money. The website is great in the context of the industry and Universal's own website. They're doing a good job folks.
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<commence bitching session>I
I sooooooooo wish Universal would invest $250k per year on an an interactive marketing dept that would dedicate 3 months to HHN (while spending the other 9 months doing other UNI stuff). Where we'd have the interactive games and stuff that we had in the 2005ish time frame (not a HHN expert with everything committed to memory, just guesstimating). I hate the fact that we "figure everything out" through hints and sources and leaks and then "hurry up and wait" for the official announcements. I think if we had more of a fun, interactive experience that we'd all be happy.
And NOT super secret nerd stuff...but just games and stuff to find out stuff before they put it on the splash page of the main site. If they had 3 vauge hints leading up to TWD announcement that would have been great. JWD, Dr Jimmy and Legacy could give us their hints about the answer and then it would be released and we'd move on. Then another 3 hints now for whatever the second hint was and we'd figure it out with the help of our "inside sources". I think that would make us happy as well as intrigue the GP for event. They used to do this sooooooooooo well, but now the website sucks. Even the games suck. It's so easy to call off the spoilers on their part, and give the customers what they want.
Full disclosure: This is probably a result of doing the recent survey and being shoehorned into selecting what I thought of the website without having and option that fit my opinion. Oh yeah, and the fact that I work in the MARCOM area
<end bitching session>
EDIT: Fixed brainfart of referring to JWD as TWD. Damn abbreviations for houses rotting my brain!
As much as we would all love this the surveys we've seen make it near impossible to gain traction. I obviously don't have the results of the tests but I imagine a large majority of the people taking this rank the importance of a more in-depth website low. Most just want the basic information and a clear way to look at prices and dates. I've done user testing and web work for ages, even spoke with Universal Hollywood about handling some of their digital marketing a few years ago, and what some of us want just isn't financially feasible for Universal.
To say it is as simple as spending 250k is also a long shot. Just yesterday I had a meeting about a project that had a budget of 150k (bid by other companies as even more than that) with a very simple corporate website. Employees would help keep that low but you would need to have a Lead Developer, a Junior Developer, a Designer, and more than likely someone in User Experience (in some fashion) to make a team that is adequate. That puts you above 250k even with 3 of those roles if you want it done properly. Now, you have to factor in legal reviews of content, content creation, digital marketing being involved, security testing, etc. Now you're roping in other departments and their time would be taken from other aspects. So things get out of hand pretty quickly.
Games, apps, interaction of any kind, etc would be awesome. But it doesn't generate revenue beyond the cost of building it. So it just won't get buy-in from corporate. A shiny interactive mini-site could happen with a vendor one year. I could see that. But I highly doubt anything more will ever happen without major changes in corporate.
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You wont need a FOTL if you're attending multiple nights. You'll def hit EVERYTHING within 3 nights, and can do so within one night if planned properly.
I would def take that tour bus down to Knotts for a day and night of fun. BUT that taxi ride back to your hotel sounds pricey. Idk. I def think Knotts is worth your time, just not too sure about that taxi ride back to the hotel.
Thinking about stay the first night at Knott's then taking a taxi to Universal (Sheraton or Hilton) for the rest of the trip. Just hate the thought of so much run around on a vacation like that. Multiple hotels, taxis, etc. Doesn't sound relaxing and fun
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We also seem to have more people coming from the East to see our event. Our baby event is growing, dare I say "crawling."
So true. My buddy and I will be switching from Orlando to Hollywood this year. Excited for movie related goodness
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Through Universal's site I was able to get a price of $1450 for the Sheraton hotel. It's about .2 miles from Universal so that's perfect. Much more reasonable.
After looking around at ticket options on Uni's site I got an idea. They have a "Starline Tours of Hollywood - hop on, hop off" ticket for $29. It goes to Knott's. So, I'm thinking, we could take that tour and hit Knott's for an entire day and then taxi back depending on rates in the area. Seems like a great way to save a few bucks on getting there plus take in some sights en route.
Thoughts?
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Just to add to what DTH said, I would recommend getting a FOTL pass. I went opening night last year and had to skip a maze, not to mention the fact that we rarely get on the rides or see shows with the exception of B&T. As for hotels, I've never stayed @ the Universal Sheraton but $2500 sounds way too expensive for 2 people. Definitely look around, maybe just stay there while attending HHN, and if you decide to hit KSF (which I recommend, simply for the fact that it so different from BOTH HHN's AND quantity of mazes) stay at a hotel in Buena Park close to KSF, and it wont be such long trip to Disney (should you choose to visit)
Would FOTL pass be an issue if we had a FFP and attended the event 3 nights? We are usually able to do everything in one night in Orlando without any passes during 'Hell week' when all schools are out and it's packed. If not one night, certainly two nights with doubling back on the houses as well.
I'm fairly certain we will stay in the same hotel for the entire stay so we don't over complicate things. We may not be able to make it to Knott's due to the distance then. Do they have any special shuttles or commuting options to get there? Doubtful, but thought I'd ask. I can't imagine an hour long taxi ride to be cheap either
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Murdy just posted on twitter saying "Uh oh. We're gonna have to take the maze code name "Nicasio" and the hint "Mark Arm" off the table. To quote Bowie... Cha Cha Cha...Changes!"
Thoughts?
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First, thank you for a detailed response like that. Very helpful!
We actually want to try Hollywood because of the movie aspect. Orlando has done great with a few properties that tie into their story lines. But we have been there a few years in a row and it's too familiar now. The rides, the attractions, etc. So it's time for Hollywood.
I checked out the Universal hotel (Sheraton?) and it was upwards of $2500 for our stay. Which is pricey for two people. I was able to cover my round trip flight, Hard Rock Resort stay, all tickets, purchases, food, movies, etc for roughly half that total in Orlando. Are the prices really that much greater here? I really want to stay within walking distance. We learned our lesson the first year in Orlando as taxi costs add up really quickly even for 5-10 miles at a time. The freedom of not being on a schedule for a shuttle, and staying late at HHN, is huge.
Depending on the cost of commuting to Knott's, we are definitely interested in going there for a day. Not Disney however. Disney is definitely something I would be interested in for the family though. Just not with my buddy.
Thanks again!
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Before coming to these forums I was part of the Vault as well. Have been around for the last 4 years or so now but rarely posting here. Never posted in Hollywood's portion.
To change things up a bit my buddy and I are traveling to Hollywood for this year's event. After attending Orlando's for a number of years we had amassed 'tricks of the trade' to get the best experience all around. Whether that be flights, hotels, restaurants or how to get the most out of the event itself; we had it figured out and had a great time. But we know nothing about flying into HHNH, the best place to stay that is within walking distance (if possible) or a place that has a shuttle with a quick drive time (5-10 minutes), etc.
Care to share your tricks of the trade for getting the most out of HHNH?
Notes:
- We typically fly in mid-to-late October (10/20-10/25ish) for a 6 day / 5 night vacation.
- Stay in the park all day and then HHN all night with a FFP
- Do any hotels have express passes built into your stay using your room key, etc?
- May want to do Knott's Berry Farm
Any help is greatly appreciated
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for those stuck on vengeance - just click and hold your mouse button on the crank and do not move it. tada! tried it 6 times every way i could think of. then did that. glad it worked
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I can see where the direction on the commercial is actually pretty good. It's film trailer quality. I would not be surprised to see an extended :60 second cut without a voice over. If you look at the direction it's actually well done.
I think we should all take a step back and calm down
They are not marketing to us. We will be there without a commercial. We will be there without a website. Maybe we will be pissed off. Sure. But we will be there to experience it unless everything is horrible or there is no storyline.When I met with Universal (Hollywood and Orlando) in regard to possibly handling a new direction of marketing for them (not just HHN but company wide) I was pretty surprised at who the consumer decision makers are, who they market to and what their main demographic is. And, in that sense, this is exactly what they needed to do.
Remember, there are only a handful of us. What maybe 30-50 that post weekly? A couple hundred that read this each week? We are clearly not their main concern from a money standpoint. They have our money. So their priority is on pulling in the next phase of people.
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IH
Thought that was hilarious. I've been chatting with IH for the last hour. I can't imagine how she has the time to talk with everyone right now. How many people do you think message her at a time?
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Ignatia Himmel just sent me a message saying "We are all responsible for the breakdown and what is to come."
Nice knowing everyone.
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the lantern is in the A&D building at universal
Oh good...
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The LT pop-up doesn't occur after about 2 minutes on the "New Terrors are Developing" page. It could be intended, or they could be doing something (behind the scenes) to the site.
LegendaryTruth - The Collective (Official) We've already removed our warning alert from your website.Scott
T.j. Mannarino Thank you. I have had some resistance to the investigation due to my concerns about what might happen...
Halloween Horror Nights 28 Speculation
in Halloween Horror Nights 28
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Can confirm that two nights with stay and scream is adequate. We split the front and back portion of the houses for either night. We can do 3-4 per night within the first 60 minutes and then circle back to do a favorite or two another 1-2 times before it gets too crazy (more than an hour wait).
I've been going for over 10 years and travel from Wisconsin. I've got this process down. One night we stay in Finnegans for dinner and front lot. The other night we stay at Simpsons for burgers and back lot. Feel free to message me with any questions so we can keep this thread on topic