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Is it hard to not go on you personally? Like do you feel you're missing out on things? I still go, but the FREQUENCY that i go back is WAY down and I haven't bought merch in years because of how things are going lately.

Great point though on AHS, I just fear it being another IP heavy year next year and it'll destroy me.

Nope. Don't feel like I'm missing out. It's just a haunt. The money I could be spending on the event I'm using elsewhere so it's no skin off my nose. While, in theory, I wish I could satisfy my tinge of curiosity spoilers, reviews, and videos tell me all I need to know about the event. And yeah, I'm fine with not going.

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Agalloch I honestly completely agree with you. The sad thing is, is that IPs are most likely here to stay. Yes, the glory days were what made HHN what it is but marketing has slaughtered this event to the point of what is probably no return. Early in the year when we got the house line up I posted this same argument but I still stand by it. I'm going this weekend but I already think this year is absolutely garbage. TWD is a flat out cop out and the over use of IPs is ridiculous. If things don't change, I'm probably gonna head over to HoS because it's cheaper and I think they're going in the direction that HHN should have went. I would love to go back to having only one or two IPs and having all original content but that isn't realistic anymore and we can't really do much about it. It's BS but that's how it is.

At this point HHN is becoming less and less of a "thing" for me. I used to love it but there's no creativity anymore and that's what got me into it in the first place. I think marketing doesn't really get what HHN is because this year isn't it and last year wasn't really it either. I honestly think that if they did an original year with maybe 1 IP that the same amount of people would show up and the same amount of tickets would be sold. HHN doesn't need the fluff that we got this year. They got the reputation they deserved AND wanted, but then marketing practically threw it in the trash with all this popular movies and tv shows nonsense. I understand having a movie house because it's Universal, but when they dominate the event I find that lazy.

The fact that they think TWD is good enough to even have a house at HHN really makes me laugh honestly. Whoever thought that idea was good needs to be fired. In fact, everyone whos on marketing needs to take a look at the Art of the Scare doc that the travel channel did and educate themselves on what HHN was.

What a superb post, and I completely agree with you! Yep, profits will come in, business deals will be made, merchandise will be created, and creativity will be kept hanging by marketing and management. No one on the creative team can speak against management because - well - Universal does not seem to be that type of company.

I'll tell you this - when I go to HoS I leave completely satisfied, even with some re-used houses. When I go to HHN I feel like "Yep, the streak of going since HHN 14 continues," but rarely do I feel happy the way the event made me. Some will argue that it's rose colored glasses - but I can tell you for an absolute fact that it isn't. There, as you may know and others can attest to, such a creative spark, passion, and love for the design they did. Now the websites even reflect it - it's generic, highlighting IPs, and they do NOT talk about the creativity behind it. There is no inside information, no secrets, nothing.

Even on the blog website they have I commented with some constructive criticism. Guess what? Deleted. And I know it was NOT Art & Designs decision to delete it because they are extremely open to criticisms from fans. Every person on that team I met before wants to hear what did NOT work before they hear what DID work. No artist is content, they want to grow, and these people are no exceptions.

Wait until you see what happens in a few years. The event steadily declines. You'll see ticket prices continue to rise as guest satisfaction drops. This year alone I spent $900 to get to HHN from North Carolina - and it was NOT worth it. I could take that $900 and go do FIFTY local haunts that have more passion and energy. As you brought up, the documentary is called Art of the Scare not "Art of the Sets", or "Art of the Marketing." So, back to my point. It is a classic case of a company getting far too up its own head to see its problems and then competitors sneak on up. Howl-o-Scream did it VERY well this year - Death Water Bayou is a BRILLIANT house that had a healthy amount of detail, ingenuity, actors, and passion. They know it is the SCARE, not the SET (even though they are great) that does it.

Hell - Look at their Nevermore house compared to our Poe house in the past. Not even a comparison. Howl-o-Scream did it amazing. And as their profits go up, watch as their creativity goes up and they don't necessarily reuse houses (PS - for those who have not gone, houses do change each year, and the ones that are brought back do see changes).

And you're dead on about the IPs basically being pretty trash. The party I went with were flat out disappointed in its execution and seriously felt that all, except AWIL, were just done just to have the title. And, let's be frank, none of the houses this year were THAT stellar EXCEPT AWIL (which has flaws).

Yep, please don't bring back TWD. It's a boring damn property to use that is generic. AWIL did it because it fit the CLASSIC HHN style. No zombies, please, let's try to be creative. Shit, even the boo doors and locations of actors were EXTREMELY obvious this year.

Really?

  • Wolves were seen a mile away
  • The bar had no actors (doesn't make sense, the bar was never empty in the movie)
  • The moor looked cheap and you can see the black curtain
  • Piccadilly Circus has nothing going on, looked very fake (especially the bus)
  • The porno theater was far too empty, and the werewolf was TOO distant from you
  • It was DEAD obvious who was a mannequin in the theater
  • The ending was very anticlimactic
  • Actors were not in your face
  • Honestly, the facade was WAY too close. You should walk UP to it and have more scenery around it

That's about 1 minute of thinking, and I can easily grab more. It was NOT a 10/10. Only a few houses in HHN's extensive history deserve it and while it was a great house, it was NOT executed flawlessly. Please. Oh, it isn't hard to even copy and paste something from a movie to a set when EVERYTHING is already done for you (the movie laid everything out). How is that creative?

I do not want Jack whatsoever. Bring back the underused Director. Bring back the Caretaker. Bring back the Usher. Those are fantastic icons to have and would help BRING the event together. Jack had a billion appearances and was NEVER scary, never creepy, nothing. Hell, go watch Director & Caretakers' commercials, THOSE are eerie things.

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Agalloch I honestly completely agree with you. The sad thing is, is that IPs are most likely here to stay. Yes, the glory days were what made HHN what it is but marketing has slaughtered this event to the point of what is probably no return. Early in the year when we got the house line up I posted this same argument but I still stand by it. I'm going this weekend but I already think this year is absolutely garbage. TWD is a flat out cop out and the over use of IPs is ridiculous. If things don't change, I'm probably gonna head over to HoS because it's cheaper and I think they're going in the direction that HHN should have went. I would love to go back to having only one or two IPs and having all original content but that isn't realistic anymore and we can't really do much about it. It's BS but that's how it is.

You haven't even been through the gates yet and you think the event is "garbage"? How is that even possible? The event this year is very, very far from "garbage". American Werewolf in London is getting rave reviews and just might be the best thing the event has done in years. The sets in all of the soundstages are A+ quality, The Walking Dead is just as good, and even La Llorona is incredibly impressive for a tent. Go to a Fright Fest at any Six Flags and you will very quickly be exposed to what a bad house really looks like. To deny the quality you get in terms of design in immersion is just flat out silly and a huge insult to the people who spend months putting it all together for you to enjoy.

How is The Walking Dead a copout? They took the most popular television show in the event's target demographic and brought it in to the park.. and guess what? It brought in the crowds and sold out the event for the first time in years last year. Last year's house wasn't very good, I will give you that, but they really redeemed themselves this year with the house, which I found to be very good, and the excellent stuff they have in the streets. We all begged for more sets and street themeing last year, and they listened. They built a huge barn, got a tank, and added a roaming walker bomb truck. What more do you need? The answer is there is just simply no pleasing some people unless you build a time machine that takes them back to HHN 11.

No, they wouldn't get the same crowds with just 1 IP. HHN 21 did not reach the crowd levels that 22 and so far 23 have pulled in. People are very excited to see these franchises and ticket sales reflect that. Also, guess what those high ticket sale numbers mean? Bigger and better houses, which there definitely were this year. I also invite you to send your thoughts to A&D on how "lazy" they were this year. I mean, it only took them so many years to work on and perfect An American Werewolf in London. Seriously, go and tweet Mike Aiello about how lazy him and his coworkers on A&D, the people who actually build the houses, and the makeup artists have been this year. It takes just as much, if not more work to create the IP houses as it does for the original ones. Your lack of knowledge on what goes into the event in terms of designing and then actually building the stuff is alarming for your liking to rant on end about how everything is "garbage".

Question: Had they done an "original" house based on a prison developing a flesh-eating virus and then the dead zombies break out and invade a nearby town, would it have made you laugh? No, of course not, because apparently anything original they do is golden. I enjoy the original stuff as much as the next guy, but the worst house of the event was Havoc, and that's not IP based. Just because it's not the Usher, Director, or the Body Collectors (GUESS WHAT!? BASED OFF OF A PROPERTY!) doesn't mean it's bad. Once again, I invite you to email or contact the person who made the big time business decision to bring Walking Dead into the event to tell them you think they should be fired. They'll probably just send you an email back with the numbers the event this year and last year have brought in as a response.

The overall bitterness that came out of this post was crazy, especially when it started with "I will be going this weekend". I always respect and invite the opinions of others, because to each their own, but when you call things you haven't even experienced yet "garbage" and then start calling for people to be fired because YOU think that their work is BS, it's ridiculous. Like I said, you can not like the event and you can voice that opinion, but to start calling for people's jobs isn't fair.

I agree with everything JDW posted above, that was a great post and should probably be stickied somehow somewhere.

Overall, I thought this year was really, really good. I enjoyed the streets very much and American Werewolf just might be my all time favorite house. Walking Dead, Cabin, La Llorona were all very very good and even the houses that I found to be bad (Havoc and RE) were better than the houses that I found to be bad last year (Cooper and HoH). I had a blast this past weekend and was very glad to see that they really stepped up their game for HHN 23. The whole HHN team really did a great job. Looking forward to seeing what they do next year.

Edited by Coast
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The event this year is very, very far from "garbage". American Werewolf in London is getting rave reviews and just might be the best thing the event has done in years. The sets in all of the soundstages are A+ quality, The Walking Dead is just as good, and even La Llorona is incredibly impressive for a tent.

Stop. AWIL is getting rave reviews because of the puppets more than anything else. It was NOT a 10/10 house, NOWHERE near it. Check my review for reasons why. Plus, of course it is getting rave reviews when the event was pretty horrible for a few years now. Sure, the sets are pretty good this year, but that does NOT make a great house. If I want "sets" I'd go look outside - lot's of real sets there. It's the combination, the "art of the scare" that combines convincing sets, excellent audio, intense and personal actors, smells, superb lighting and props, fantastic pacing, and a good story that make the house. NOT just the sets - let's be frank, from this year, ONLY AWIL had it, and it was not a perfect house (here is a fundamental flaw - you can see the wolves from a mile away).

It's no different from the user Legacy who hasn't gone in years because his perception of the event is that the quality has been going down. Their perceptions are perfectly valid because the sentiment is honestly shared among guests. And, the event is popular because of what they did in previous years. You wont' see an IMMEDIATE plummet in sales, in fact it is now the "thing" to do where they do barely enough of a good job to bring in locals on a regular basis. I also wouldn't be surprised if the event is more successful because of the Rush of Fear / Frequent Fear passes - regular attendance brings in extra money. Speaking of which, where are you seeing these financial numbers?

Funny enough, I thought they were all garbage.

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Really?

  • Wolves were seen a mile away
  • The bar had no actors (doesn't make sense, the bar was never empty in the movie)
  • The moor looked cheap and you can see the black curtain
  • Piccadilly Circus has nothing going on, looked very fake (especially the bus)
  • The porno theater was far too empty, and the werewolf was TOO distant from you
  • It was DEAD obvious who was a mannequin in the theater
  • The ending was very anticlimactic
  • Actors were not in your face
  • Honestly, the facade was WAY too close. You should walk UP to it and have more scenery around it

That's about 1 minute of thinking, and I can easily grab more. It was NOT a 10/10. Only a few houses in HHN's extensive history deserve it and while it was a great house, it was NOT executed flawlessly. Please. Oh, it isn't hard to even copy and paste something from a movie to a set when EVERYTHING is already done for you (the movie laid everything out). How is that creative?

To start, I imagine it is very very difficult to hide the massive, terrifying wolf puppets any better. I also love how close they put them to you and how far out of the holes they came. As for the Slaughtered Lamb, the bar scene was setup to look like just after the moment they realized they should go save David and Jack, which is why it is empty. When was the porn theater ever full in the movie? Pretty sure anyone who was there in that scene in the movie was accounted for in the house. Sure it was obvious that Jack was going to be an actor because he is a major character, but the second scare in there was a decent surprise if you hadn't seen it before you came in the room.

As for the actors not being enough in your face, the bus scare actor lunges incredibly far from her window, the David in the hospital scene got so in my face Sunday that I could feel his breath, and the Nazi with the knife in the living room manages to get within inches of you. Maybe you just didn't have such luck with scare timing? The ending was sort of anticlamatic in the movie and they ended the house the same way, with the wolf in the alleyway. They even had Blue Moon playing as you exited as if it were the title credits. As for the facade that came off as a nitpick.

Edited by Coast

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I respect your opinion, but maybe I could explain it they way I saw it. To start, I imagine it is very very difficult to hide the massive, terrifying wolf puppets any better. I also love how close they put them to you and how far out of the holes they came. As for the Slaughtered Lamb, the bar scene was setup to look like just after the moment they realized they should go save David and Jack, which is why it is empty. When was the porn theater ever full in the movie? Pretty sure anyone who was there in that scene in the movie was accounted for in the house. Sure it was obvious that Jack was going to be an actor because he is a major character, but the second scare in there was a decent surprise if you hadn't seen it before you came in the room.

As for the actors not being enough in your face, the bus scare actor lunges incredibly far from her window, the David in the hospital scene got so in my face Sunday that I could feel his breath, and the Nazi with the knife in the living room manages to get within inches of you. Maybe you just didn't have such luck with scare timing? The ending was sort of anticlamatic in the movie and they ended the house the same way, with the wolf in the alleyway. They even had Blue Moon playing as you exited as if it were the title credits. As for the facade, with all due respect, that came off as a nitpick.

Then the team didn't do enough of a creative job. When your primary element of the house is completely visible down a hallway they simply didn't hide it well. You're right it lunged extremely violently and I loved it to death, but if you see a scare a mile away it's not a scare anymore. As for the bar, I see your guess, but the issue is we never saw the rescue of David so ultimately it's an assumption. The first two rooms of the house (bar/moores) felt shockingly devoid of interaction and it took me back initially. The theater wasn't full, you're right, but there were multiple actors in the scene and, what, maybe two in our haunt? I should have been more clear. Meh, if the movie didn't end well they should take some sort of liberty and have a better closing.

My point is though while it was clearly the best house this year, it is not void of imperfections.

Edited by agalloch
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On our unmasking the horror tour someone asked the guide about this. His reply was that they simply stopped using PS for this year, that there is no conclusion to that character at the moment.

I actually asked about this as well, and got a "who knows" type of response - as there was a clear disconnect between the creative and marketing side of things.

At the same time I feel like there is a disconnect between creative and operations as well.

If the right hand knew what the left hand was doing and/or gave a damn - I think the event would be lightyears ahead of where it is now from a quality standpoint.

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I used to say bigger, more detailed sets is better than the scare... I think I may have been wrong in that . I love amazing sets but with houses like RE. Its beautiful but the scares just aren't there. I think the huge, sparsely populated vistas kill that one. I think a house needs to be tight and more intimate. Immersive is great. But immersion isn't the only thing that makes a house good.

The biggest problem for me was Universal making bigger sets and not adding more actors. The last room in resident Evil could have easily had 3 more actors than it already has. The beginning of the house could have had 2 more zombies.

The Rooms look great. But they feel so empty.

Like, seriously if they are going to do bigger sets, then the 2 actors per room doesn't work as well. the same thing happened for me with some rooms in Cabin in the Woods.

They can do very cool detailed sets but not making them so big and wide with a couple of actors made the rooms feel empty.

I remember Frankenstein having such amazing and detailed sets but the rooms still felt small enough and the scares were great.

What about Gothic.... Really nice sets, But smaller more claustrophobic rooms. I think that works best.

Besides that, With the bigger sets, You cannot even truly enjoy them in a conga line with people flashing your face with a flashlight telling you to keep going.

What good are big wide sets full of details when you can barely see them for more than 10 seconds. The first room of Cabin has so much stuff in it, and the only thing I remember is the Wolf head because of this same reason.

I honestly prefer closer, smaller rooms with a lot of detail and really good scares. I can't really enjoy the bigger sets because Like I said you barely have any time to walk through them.

Edited by LV-426
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I hear it all the time, but I can't believe that people honestly believe that building a great IP house is "easy." Nothing screams "I've never made anything worthwhile" like being so ready and willing to say making something like a HHN quality IP house is easy.



Criticism is one thing, but to say something you've clearly never done nor could do is "easy" shows some gross levels of ignorance and arrogance.

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I hear it all the time, but I can't believe that people honestly believe that building a great IP house is "easy." Nothing screams "I've never made anything worthwhile" like being so ready and willing to say making something like a HHN quality IP house is easy.

Criticism is one thing, but to say something you've clearly never done nor could do is "easy" shows some gross levels of ignorance and arrogance.

How about it is comparatively easier? Take AWIL. They look at the movie, know exactly which scenes are important, use well known voice and sound effects as audio, know how each room should look, know how each scare actor should look, and generally have the pacing already pre-worked as they just do the big scenes from the movie. How is that not comparatively FAR easier than an original house?

Yes, because if you don't then necessary constructive criticism isn't received (after all, we see things differently than the creators can) and then the event continues in the general trend we have today.

Edited by agalloch
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Not at all. In fact I agree with many of your points.

BTW it says you are 14... that would put you at.... 5 for HHN 14? How much of that do you remember? Just curious as that is a very young age to go to HHN.

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Not at all. In fact I agree with many of your points.

BTW it says you are 14... that would put you at.... 5 for HHN 14? How much of that do you remember? Just curious as that is a very young age to go to HHN.

I'm 25, just filled out a random BS birthday when making the account. So, I was probably, what, 15 or 16 going to HHN 14? I remember a great deal of it.

Thanks for agreeing :)

Edited by agalloch

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There is an art to faithfully recreating a movie's sets and characters in a way that make sense for a HHN style attraction. It's not the same kind of challenge as making an original house, but it's certainly a challenge of the same caliber. If IP mazes were really easier to make than originals, don't you think that more haunts would be doing them? It clearly brings people into the gates, so if it's so easy to do it why do a minority of haunts even bother to try?

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There is an art to faithfully recreating a movie's sets and characters in a way that make sense for a HHN style attraction. It's not the same kind of challenge as making an original house, but it's certainly a challenge of the same caliber. If IP mazes were really easier to make than originals, don't you think that more haunts would be doing them? It clearly brings people into the gates, so if it's so easy to do it why do a minority of haunts even bother to try?

Because those haunts do not own the rights to those IPs. Simple answer.

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HHN doesn't own the rights to the IPs either, until the get the rights to use that IP that year. That's why people say things like "The New Line Deal" or talked about Universal's history with Sony when Evil Dead was being speculated on. Or why Jimmy talked about the problems with getting the rights to do AWIL as a maze. Did you think Universal just owns the rights to all of the IPs they use without having to acquire them by asking the production companies?

So...if IP houses are easy and draw in crowds, why don't more haunts use them?

Edited by ferox
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You haven't even been through the gates yet and you think the event is "garbage"? How is that even possible? The event this year is very, very far from "garbage". American Werewolf in London is getting rave reviews and just might be the best thing the event has done in years. The sets in all of the soundstages are A+ quality, The Walking Dead is just as good, and even La Llorona is incredibly impressive for a tent. Go to a Fright Fest at any Six Flags and you will very quickly be exposed to what a bad house really looks like. To deny the quality you get in terms of design in immersion is just flat out silly and a huge insult to the people who spend months putting it all together for you to enjoy.

How is The Walking Dead a copout? They took the most popular television show in the event's target demographic and brought it in to the park.. and guess what? It brought in the crowds and sold out the event for the first time in years last year. Last year's house wasn't very good, I will give you that, but they really redeemed themselves this year with the house, which I found to be very good, and the excellent stuff they have in the streets. We all begged for more sets and street themeing last year, and they listened. They built a huge barn, got a tank, and added a roaming walker bomb truck. What more do you need? The answer is there is just simply no pleasing some people unless you build a time machine that takes them back to HHN 11.

No, they wouldn't get the same crowds with just 1 IP. HHN 21 did not reach the crowd levels that 22 and so far 23 have pulled in. People are very excited to see these franchises and ticket sales reflect that. Also, guess what those high ticket sale numbers mean? Bigger and better houses, which there definitely were this year. I also invite you to send your thoughts to A&D on how "lazy" they were this year. I mean, it only took them so many years to work on and perfect An American Werewolf in London. Seriously, go and tweet Mike Aiello about how lazy him and his coworkers on A&D, the people who actually build the houses, and the makeup artists have been this year. It takes just as much, if not more work to create the IP houses as it does for the original ones. Your lack of knowledge on what goes into the event in terms of designing and then actually building the stuff is alarming for your liking to rant on end about how everything is "garbage".

Question: Had they done an "original" house based on a prison developing a flesh-eating virus and then the dead zombies break out and invade a nearby town, would it have made you laugh? No, of course not, because apparently anything original they do is golden. I enjoy the original stuff as much as the next guy, but the worst house of the event was Havoc, and that's not IP based. Just because it's not the Usher, Director, or the Body Collectors (GUESS WHAT!? BASED OFF OF A PROPERTY!) doesn't mean it's bad. Once again, I invite you to email or contact the person who made the big time business decision to bring Walking Dead into the event to tell them you think they should be fired. They'll probably just send you an email back with the numbers the event this year and last year have brought in as a response.

The overall bitterness that came out of this post was crazy, especially when it started with "I will be going this weekend". I always respect and invite the opinions of others, because to each their own, but when you call things you haven't even experienced yet "garbage" and then start calling for people to be fired because YOU think that their work is BS, it's ridiculous. Like I said, you can not like the event and you can voice that opinion, but to start calling for people's jobs isn't fair.

I agree with everything JDW posted above, that was a great post and should probably be stickied somehow somewhere.

Overall, I thought this year was really, really good. I enjoyed the streets very much and American Werewolf just might be my all time favorite house. Walking Dead, Cabin, La Llorona were all very very good and even the houses that I found to be bad (Havoc and RE) were better than the houses that I found to be bad last year (Cooper and HoH). I had a blast this past weekend and was very glad to see that they really stepped up their game for HHN 23. The whole HHN team really did a great job. Looking forward to seeing what they do next year.

Honestly that was only a fragment of my argument and if you'd really like to read my argument I made a thread for it. I do know what goes into HHN, don't tell me I don't. Yes, I know IPs take work. Yes, I understand I haven't gone yet (I am going tomorrow) so I can't entirely say how I feel about this year. Yes I also know that not everything is original. Guess what? Nothing is. It's all recycled. Movies, clothes, etc. It's all recycled and made into something new and that's why BC was good because of how they manipulated it to something we haven't seen. You call me bitter yet here you are putting words into my own mouth.

Havoc is the worst house this year? Maybe that's because there were only three "original" houses this year? And you know what's funny? La Lorona came from Hollywood, Havoc was a sequel and After Life is pretty much the same concept as the In-Between just put to a different setting. So basically you could argue that there wasn't anything original at the event at all this year. They took the popular originals and pretty much brought them back. Also, I agree, the sets are great but then again so were so many other sets in original houses. I've said it numerous times, HHN wasn't always the event where you could walk through your favorite movies like it is today. Also, TWD is a copout because not only did we get it last year, but they plagued the streets with it this year AND gave it a house, simply for the sake of milking the cow as much as they could. They could have done another popular TV such as American Horror Story, but no, they brought back material we already had.

Also, I don't just eat up anything original. Get real, I have tastes and opinions and just because it's a first timer doesn't I'm gonna be in love with it. I do RESPECT original work far more than work that is copied from something else. More work goes into original content because someone has to make everything from scratch. It comes from their imagination and I automatically give them props for that because that's difficult. There's no movie to look at and draw from. They have an idea and they run with it. Sometimes they'd borrow pieces of films/shows and such, like Body Collectors, to make a house. That's cool, it's like collage of horror. I like that. Somebody liked a movie enough to reference it in a house, I have no problem with that because they're twisting it into something new. Don't try to make me look like a fool when I know what I'm being fed. I'm well aware of what came from where.

HHN got the respect they have for being a game changer, being big, and being original. There was nothing like it for a while, and there still isn't. But now it's about bringing in massive crowds and making money. Okay, I get that, but you know what? I don't like that. So you know what? I'm gonna go somewhere else and I'm sure a lot of other people will too. That's just how it is. They used to care about the fans but the fans have taken the back seat. That's not cool to me because we're the loyal customers who have been going to this event for ages, and I know this because of the half assed crap they TRIED to put together for the fans. They didn't even finish the PS story because it was stupid and quite obviously a last minute thing.

I'm not being bitter. I'm being honest and sharing my opinion. I could not care less about what you think about it because I've been attending this event for enough to have this opinion. HHN used to excite me because I was excited to see what they were gonna do, but now it's more like "I wonder what movies they're gonna use".

Edited by Goo
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HHN doesn't own the rights to the IPs either, until the get the rights to use that IP that year. That's why people say things like "The New Line Deal" or talked about Universal's history with Sony when Evil Dead was being speculated on. Or why Jimmy talked about the problems with getting the rights to do AWIL as a maze. Did you think Universal just owns the rights to all of the IPs they use without having to acquire them by asking the production companies?

So...if IP houses are easy and draw in crowds, why don't more haunts use them?

Sorry if I was being unclear. Universal, unlike local haunts, has the ability to negotiate for these far more than they ever can. It'd be like if I asked to borrow your house for a movie VS Disney coming in and asking to borrow it - who would you give it to?

Exactly right. And with very preliminary rumors saying next year is going to be IP heavy again, odds are I'm not even going. I can do a road trip for the total cost for me to get to HHN and hit up houses that are far more with the halloween, haunt spirit than HHN has been in the last few years. Seriously, HHN 18 ( scare zone creativity ), HHN 15 ( story, bold steps, ambiance ), and HHN 14 ( houses, scale, innovation ) are the epitome of HHN. Nothing came close since, nothing.

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They used to care about the fans but the fans have taken the back seat. That's not cool to me because we're the loyal customers who have been going to this event for ages, and I know this because of the half assed crap they TRIED to put together for the fans. They didn't even finish the PS story because it was stupid and quite obviously a last minute thing.

Actually I can understand wanting to appeal to the masses, I can understand doing everything for the general public, I can understand not caring what the hardcore fans say because, well, the fans make a small percentage of the ticket sells. I know Universal does this for profit and what matters most is that same thing.

What I don't understand somtimes is why can't they do good houses and streets for the general public? Like, I can undersand Uni not caring what the fans say, but sometimes I wonder why can't they do a better job for the general masses anyways?

I'll give one example, Walking dead house Last year and this year. Last year the house was done because of the huge amount of fans, the house was pretty much done for the masses. The house was really awful.

This year not only was another house made, but the streets are all about the WD, and Look at the house... it is amazing (compared to last year)

This sequel house is also made with the general masses in mind and to bring in a huge profit, But they totally did the amazing job they didn't do last year.

my point is, why couldn't they make the house as good last year? Yes the even is done for money, but Everything else in the parks is done for money, Potter was done for money, yet look how amazing they made the Potter side at Islands and how great the ride is. (I know Potter and HHN are completely different things, Im just saying)

I guess what I am trying to say is that, just because something is made with profit in mind and for the general public, doesn't mean it can't be great. Walking Dead this year proves this. the difference between houses is so huge it is ridiculous. Sometimes I just wonder why some things are not as great as they could be, and this has nothing to do with the fans.

Edited by LV-426
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The term "fan" is getting thrown around pretty loosely. Fan implies you like the event.

But with all the whining, nitpicking, cynicism it sounds more like ex-fans.

With the amount of whining and complaining that goes on EVERY single year from the "fans" I wouldn't listen to them either.

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The term "fan" is getting thrown around pretty loosely. Fan implies you like the event.

But with all the whining, nitpicking, cynicism it sounds more like ex-fans.

With the amount of whining and complaining that goes on EVERY single year from the "fans" I wouldn't listen to them either.

"Fan" in name only.

I definitely see your point though, but with HHN (like anything else) there is a muddied middle ground when "fans" start griping.

Look at the Orlando Magic. Magic fans enjoy the Magic and want to see them succeed. While having Dwight Howard they were consistently in the play-offs, won division championships and made it to the finals. They were consistently rated as one of the best teams in the NBA.

And the fans would consistently CRUCIFY the management of the team. Constantly. Because despite the wins and success of the team, it wasn't good enough for the fans.

Granted, a sports team has a definitive measure of success where a haunt is a bit esoteric. But for haunt fans, it isn't. The problem lies in the fact that want haunt fans differs widely from person to person. Some want beauty, some want straight up fear, some just want something enjoyable. When all of them are correct, these sorts of arguments erupt. We're all fans who want to see the event success. What that "success" is what we can't agree on.

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I agree with that. I just imagine its very frustrating for the creative types who make the event. Ultimately they don't have any control over what gets approved but yet they catch flak for what is created. I don't see where lack of creativity comes into play though. They are given x and are given very strict, and often unrealistic, things they are told to abide by. Granted they aren't doing the creative brainstorming for the houses as that is already done.. but that is the easy part. Conceptualizing is easy. Being forced to preform under certain strict guidelines is not.

I was on the "extremely disapointed" bandwagon when I heard the TWD bomb dropped. I don't find zombies, in the traditional sense, interesting or scary. especially after getting wind of the things that were to be before TWD. They still pulled off what was expected of them in the best way possible.

The ironic thing i think is if they were simply allowed to have a band of each of the legions roaming around, interacting with the zombies and the guest, most here would have been more pleased. But there were a lot of things planned, costumes built even, that didn't see the light of day this year. so i fully expect them next year as universal coporate doubtfully likes to waste the money.

IDK I just stopped caring that much this year and think I'm better off for it. We've had plenty of "misses" in the past. Why is this one any different? Plus, I'll express what I feel was deficient and then just move on. It's over. the event is ongoing and everything is set. Why rage over what "could have" been. It isn't the end of the world.

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