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Goo

Popularity and greed ruining HHN (and other events)?

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Lets play nice folks

Thanks for the compliment Prometheus. I'm flattered you hold me in such high regard. I do think there are many people on this forum who are very creative... far more creative than I actually. I'm very honest... Doesn't mean I'm always right though :)

I also think everyone's opinion is valid so long as it is logical and fair with reason backing it up. Nothing grates on my nerves more than people just griping with nothing constructive to back it up.

Everyone's different and deals with disappointment in different ways. What's the "right" way to tell Universal we don't like the changes? I honestly don't know.

Things change I get that. It's about money for the corporation... I get that too. But for the artists who create this event I've heard them liken their creations to children... and I get that more than anything. If its hard for us to see their creations get white-washed by corporate and IPs... Imagine how hard it is for them

I have never meant any disservice to anyone who works hard to create this event in my complaints. The guys and gals who create this event are WHY I go. Otherwise its just another corporate money making machine.

Yeah it gets frustrating when you see things that you love change and ,from one's own standpoint, for the worse. I fill out all the surveys, I voice my opinions here and elsewhere. But I still love the event overall... For the simple fact that A&D put so much into it. It is their passion that sparks my passion and has often been a springboard for my own muse.

The ironic thing is I am not overall unhappy with the lineup despite the IPs. I've had a few months to mull all this over. Yeah my knee-jerk reaction was that it would make the event suck. Then I remembered 2007 and how much I loved THAT IP laden year. It's all in the implementation. LT going all year makes me happy too. To me that is A&D seeing how we feel and going the extra mile for the die-hards who want more than just a night to get scared and drunk. Yes of course if its successful corporate funds it, markets it, and slaps their metrics on it.

My biggest gripe is the lack of a centralizing theme last year. But last year was so crazy in terms of restrictions and construction... I have to give them a pass.

Overall I don't know for sure where the event is heading. I've heard things I like and things I don't like. But that's life. I will continue to try my best to give constructive criticism. But ultimately HHN isn't my life. If it gets to where corporate chokes the life out of the event... then I wont go. Plain and simple. BUT until that happens I will do my best to enjoy and love the event.

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I know I'm in the minority and that's OK. I'm not going to get into a fracas. What I will say is this forum is superlative because of the people who frequent it. I simply wanted to say thank you to two individuals for bringing some salient points to the discussion. In doing so, I noted the difference between how the event is viewed in different circles.

I appreciate anyone who contributes to the many quality disucssions on these forums and who does so without unconstructive retorts that do nothing but seek to belittle an bemean someone else for having a point of view.

There are more names then I could possibly mention and if you are one of those people whose constructive contributions and knowledge contribute to this forum, thank you as well for making this such an excellent home for Horror Nights on the web.

Prom, again, I'm really hoping that your intent is as altruistic as you claim. But what you said could just have easily been done via pm. Instead, by putting it into the public sphere, and by explicitly calling out that you're an expert who sees Truth where others don't, it creates a context of elitism. That's not noting difference in how different circles see the event; that's implying that you're better, or at least more intuitive, than others, without any backing of that opinion. I hope you can see that (no pun intended). And you spun it in such a way that if someone defends their position (which in a public forum, people will), you can claim martyrdom and your point proven.

That being said, I've given my bit regarding this and am moving on. This is only derailing the thread, and things are pretty close to getting personal. I respect these boards and the members here too much to continue along that line of discourse. Especially for an event that's supposed to be something fun.

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"Especially not anyone here". Drinkin too much of your own Koolaid i see. What do you mean by that?? Since your going to demean many people in this forum.

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What other Halloween event does Orlando have?

I keep reading "if you don't like it don't go/go somewhere else"

But WHERE? There is nothing in Orlando that is like HHN.

Even the worst year at HHN is better than sitting at home, But that doesn't mean everything Universal does is gold. I mean, If we had another event like this... then maybe.

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Well, you are coming from a mostly pro-current HHN standpoint. You see that there are imperfections, but you like the event overall. So to you, it doesn't make much sense to just not go. To you, the pros outweigh the cons so you go, as most decisions work.

If you were the kind of person who was so let down with HHN 2012 that you felt the need to compare people who were so let down as much as you are to some of the greatest minds in history, it would make sense not to go. If you were to say thing like " I can guarantee you this, for all the people who laugh and mock, if you gave the three of us the ability to drive the future of HHN, you'd understand. Unfortunately most don't see" it would make sense to just not go. Even if nothing else is nearby. If you have so much vested interest in not liking HHN 2012 that you will band together with your brothers and defend them as the martyrs you are, not going is the best choice.

Liking the event but having criticisms of it isn't the same as identifying yourself as a sacred protector of the gospel of 2013 was garbage. I think most people here at least like HHN (otherwise why be a part of this forum? Just to complain? Cool...I guess? ) and have criticisms. Which is great. I think most everyone critiques things they like. It makes sense. If you are really immersed into something you are going to have some problems with it. It shows that you are actively engaging the material. But if you really just hate something as badly as some of the people in this thread do, it makes much more sense to not partake in whatever it is. Especially something as expensive as HHN.

Edited by ferox
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What other Halloween event does Orlando have?

I keep reading "if you don't like it don't go/go somewhere else"

But WHERE? There is nothing in Orlando that is like HHN.

Even the worst year at HHN is better than sitting at home, But that doesn't mean everything Universal does is gold. I mean, If we had another event like this... then maybe.

Well, to be fair, there's not much in the country that's like HHN. That's why it draws the people and the crowds it does. :) But I have to imagine there are other haunts in the area, given how much a touristy area Orlando is. Being non-native, is HOS really that far away? Haven't been myself, but it seems like they've been stepping up their game a lot the last couple years.

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It's 76 miles from Universal to Busch Gardens.

Edited by ferox

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Several terrific posts here, thanks to all for contributing so many ideas to the discourse.

I do frequently see the comment made, “If you don’t like it, don’t go.” However, the event itself is complex, as is the variety of unique individuals that make up the fan community. Different aspects of the event are of primary importance to different folks. For instance, I myself don’t have a major issue with either a lack of specific overarching theme or icon. I think it’s nifty when we get it – I’m not overly unhappy when we don’t. However, I understand that is an important part of the event for others, so expressing that desire and disappointment is valid and valuable.

Another comment that gets thrown in periodically is that “we” don’t like change. Jeramy hit it on the head when he said “it gets frustrating when you see things that you love change, AND, FROM ONE’S OWN STANDPOINT, FOR THE WORSE.” I suspect the issue is not always change itself; it’s change that is perceived as ultimately decreasing enjoyment and value for oneself.

Beside the other issues that I have mentioned before that I find disappointing, I do also have concern about prices continuing to rise, and the feeling that I continue to get less for my dollar than I have in previous years. That fuels a financial decision on a personal level. For instance, I came very close to not renewing my Disney annual pass this past year, mostly based on not believing I’m getting sufficient value for my dollars. This time the tipping point for keeping it, and spending that money, was the individuals with whom I would be interacting, and wanting that option available for another year. From a non-haunt standpoint, though, I will say that Universal gets far more of my meager earnings than Disney does, and that based on the value I perceive I receive for my money.

And then we have the aforementioned competition, or perhaps lack thereof in the Orlando area. Whether HOS is considered competition is probably different for each of us, based primarily on distance. While I haven’t attended the events in Cali, I do get the sense that HHN has to contend with other significant haunts. Does this affect the event for the better? I’d have to ask those on the other coast. But market forces being what they are, I really would like to see some type of significant competition to HHN in our area. Not saying I have any ideas how to go about that – but that might color the offerings when choices have to be made by consumers.

So it IS a business, and most aspects of how marketing and finance work are pretty close to set in stone. But I believe the discussion is still valid. If there is something we want to see change – do we try to work the existing system from within to hopefully steer change we would like to see? Do we go outside the structure and try to encourage something new? Those ideas might be well considered when attempting to foment change to situations much more significant than an admittedly delightful entertainment event.

Finally, I agree again with Jeramy that we should be able to play nice. As one of my best friends is wont to say – “Be Excellent to Each Other.” The individuals in this community are amazing and fantastic, and I believe we can interact, disagree, and exchange ideas without being Mr. or Ms. Poopy-Pants to each other. Thanks again to everyone for providing an interesting variety of ideas and discussion points.

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And there ARE local haunts in Orlando every year. A Petrified Forest and the Enzian are two of the bigger ones. That's not counting all the start-ups that pop up regularly.

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Right there are local haunts... Which I try to support. But You can't think they are comparable. Little comes to touching the grandiose nature of HHN. Then again I guess it depends on if you like that too.

The bottom line is, as many have said, does it have vaule to you? Do you get your money's worth.

For me... I would have a hard time saying $40.00 for the first three weeks isn't a good value. Local huants charge $6-$30 for a single night with far less to offer. now granted I am a Annual passholder, I get free parking, good discounts, the AP party the first few weeks, and discounts all around... So i can see why someone else would disagree.

I have stopped buying everything they have to offer. 1.) it's way to expensive and 2.) it just isn't that inspired.

But that is a monetary/space issue. I have 6 printer paper boxes full of shirts. as many as 20 blinky cups from each year. Shot glasses, media gifts, pins, buttons, posters, costumes, and many other things... I'm just tapped out for room and made the decision that I'm not really enjoying all the stuff I horde anymore. By freeing up the 200 some dollars I spend each year on merchandise, it makes the events vaule even greater for me.

but as I've said before, even if all of the houses aren't the greatest. Street experiences are nearly non-existant ('07), and the park is crowded I almost always still have fun. There is a sense of camaraderie and commnity in both the event and the build up to it. The excitement of speculation, clues, and webstite updates often are just as exciting as going to the event itself. So not going to the event I have built up for 8 months seems ludicrous. Heck, I'm trying to convince my wife 7.5 months pregnant is perfectly fine to go to HHN... Bc i can push her in a wheel chair ;)

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...um, I would just like to pop in here long enough to point out that Da Vinci also worked for money. In fact he spent an awful lot of his time inventing new devices for killing people in nasty ways. For this service he was paid handsomely by the warring nobles of his day.

And don't even get me started on the Archimedean Screw.

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Having attended all 22 years of this event, last year was the first year that I was truly disappointed. The crowds were horrendous, the drunks were out in full force and just something seemed to be missing...it was missing that old HHN vibe that I remember from previous years.

Many factors are in play as to our attendance this year, I always have hope that the event will return to what it once was, a celebration of Halloween. That the focus will be put back on the ambiance and overall atmosphere of the event and not so much as to how many beer carts or shot girls can be placed in a queue line.

Each year I try to have an open mind when we start to get tidbits of what to expect, this year is no different. Everyone has their own opinion about the event, good, bad or indifferent. I'm hoping that perhaps this year can sway my mindset back to the days of when I loved it and couldn't wait to step out into the fog and see what was waiting for me.

Here's hoping....

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Well, in regards to the recent walking dead streets announcement...

This isn't Halloween Horror Nights. Horror nights used to take PRIDE in the fact that year after year they put out original and exciting new content. Now they're using a TV show for such a large part of the event... A part of the event that really set them apart in the beginning. Not to mention that the TV show isn't that great. Half of the drama is so idiotic and, for the most part, preventable. I stopped watching it because I couldn't stand how illogical and just flat out stupid some of the writing was.

This is such a huge step in the wrong direction, I was shocked when I logged in and read it. I understand the marketing aspect of it. I understand having a house, that makes a ton of sense from a marketers point of view. But there's a line that you don't want to cross. Becoming a sellout isn't a good thing. Yeah, they'll draw in fans of the show, but this isn't a Walking Dead experience or convention, and WD House accomplishes that already. Not everyone wants to spend 90 bucks to see the live version of the Walking Dead. This a great example of a lazy, unimaginative marketing strategy. I bet the people who made this decision think they're on top of their game, but if the event continues to be like this, it's gonna come back to bite them in the ass. And if you think people don't care about originality, you're wrong. When I was in high school kids would come back and comment on the event and I heard a lot of complaints, especially on how it isn't the same. A lot of kids my age have gone to horror nights in previous years, as early as 2005. They know what it used to be like and that's what a lot of them really like.

Three years of marketing classes taught me that you should always stay true to what made you popular in the first place, because that's what got your success and that's what people want. Reinvent yourself and keep things fresh but also be smart so you can make money. A WD house is smart. This? This isn't fresh. This isn't smart. This isn't reinventing anything. This is just dumb. Other events know what they're doing. HoS with the ALONE house (I think the name has been changed?) and even Knotts has their own similar experience.. People are looking for thrills, not live reenactments of what they've already seen on television.

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Well, in regards to the recent walking dead streets announcement...

This isn't Halloween Horror Nights. Horror nights used to take PRIDE in the fact that year after year they put out original and exciting new content. Now they're using a TV show for such a large part of the event... A part of the event that really set them apart in the beginning. Not to mention that the TV show isn't that great. Half of the drama is so idiotic and, for the most part, preventable. I stopped watching it because I couldn't stand how illogical and just flat out stupid some of the writing was.

This is such a huge step in the wrong direction, I was shocked when I logged in and read it. I understand the marketing aspect of it. I understand having a house, that makes a ton of sense from a marketers point of view. But there's a line that you don't want to cross. Becoming a sellout isn't a good thing. Yeah, they'll draw in fans of the show, but this isn't a Walking Dead experience or convention, and WD House accomplishes that already. Not everyone wants to spend 90 bucks to see the live version of the Walking Dead. This a great example of a lazy, unimaginative marketing strategy. I bet the people who made this decision think they're on top of their game, but if the event continues to be like this, it's gonna come back to bite them in the ass. And if you think people don't care about originality, you're wrong. When I was in high school kids would come back and comment on the event and I heard a lot of complaints, especially on how it isn't the same. A lot of kids my age have gone to horror nights in previous years, as early as 2005. They know what it used to be like and that's what a lot of them really like.

Three years of marketing classes taught me that you should always stay true to what made you popular in the first place, because that's what got your success and that's what people want. Reinvent yourself and keep things fresh but also be smart so you can make money. A WD house is smart. This? This isn't fresh. This isn't smart. This isn't reinventing anything. This is just dumb. Other events know what they're doing. HoS with the ALONE house (I think the name has been changed?) and even Knotts has their own similar experience.. People are looking for thrills, not live reenactments of what they've already seen on television.

Nothing to add. You nailed it!

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Three years of marketing classes taught me that you should always stay true to what made you popular in the first place, because that's what got your success and that's what people want. Reinvent yourself and keep things fresh but also be smart so you can make money. A WD house is smart. This? This isn't fresh. This isn't smart. This isn't reinventing anything. This is just dumb. Other events know what they're doing. HoS with the ALONE house (I think the name has been changed?) and even Knotts has their own similar experience.. People are looking for thrills, not live reenactments of what they've already seen on television.

With all due respect, I hope you passed that class because Universal is doing the correct thing business wise by doing the exact opposite of what you posted. Hmm.. give the fans (a very small percent of the attendance and income) what they want or build on what caused the event to sell out for the first time in years? They made the obvious choice in not only bringing back Walking Dead but by expanding on it. You say people are looking for thrills, but comparing Howl O Scream's attendance to HHN's last year proves otherwise. I'm sorry that you don't like the theme, and that is perfectly fine, but trying to argue against the business aspect is beyond silly.

Edited by Coast
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Three years of marketing classes taught me that you should always stay true to what made you popular in the first place, because that's what got your success and that's what people want. Reinvent yourself and keep things fresh but also be smart so you can make money. A WD house is smart. This? This isn't fresh. This isn't smart. This isn't reinventing anything. This is just dumb. Other events know what they're doing. HoS with the ALONE house (I think the name has been changed?) and even Knotts has their own similar experience.. People are looking for thrills, not live reenactments of what they've already seen on television.

I just want to throw out that Cabin in the Woods is one of the big reasons why I am flying out to the other side of the country this year.I'm looking forward to the few originals that will be there as well, but Resident Evil, Cabin in the Woods, and American Werewolf in London are the main reasons I'm going.

I said it here before and I'll say it again. Reserve your judgement before you criticize the event and just go and have fun. That's all we're going to do at the end of the night, isn't it?

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I should have included that the price is also now 90 bucks. It's almost 200 bucks to go on a friday night with an express pass. I honestly can't justify going anymore. There's a point where it just isn't worth it. I'll probably be attending HOS this year. At the end of the night, I wanna feel like my money was well spent... I do agree though. Cabin in the Woods and American Werewolf are very cool houses. But beyond that, I'm not very happy with anything they've revealed this year.

There's no denying that Horror Nights has become something else. It's no longer what it used to be. Sure the idea is still there but it's not the same. I used to be OBSESSED with this event and I followed it religiously. But it's not like that anymore. Sad to say, but that's the truth. You can say reserve your judgement, but these passed years have been disappointing to me and to a lot of other people too. I'm pretty done with reserving my judgement because I know there's a good chance it's gonna be just like last year and the year before that. I'll come back when they go back to the roots of HHN, which was scaring the shit out of people and originality, not recreating movies and tv shows.

And no, I'm not asking them to cater to the fans. That's dumb. But expanding the walking dead really doesn't do a thing. I honestly doubt that it will boost their attendance that much more. Having the house already does that. Like I said, it's overkill. Not every watches the show and not everyone likes it. It also goes against what horror nights was. They can cater to both the fans and the general public and still make a lot of money and maintain the kickass image they used to have. If you think otherwise, you're just a sucker who will say, "well, it's because they're trying to make money." They could easily do both. It's what a smart business who cares about their customers, and their fans, would do. It's what good business would do. You can say it's silly of me to argue with it, but I'm gonna say you're silly for not. Fans are equally as important as the general public.

Selling out isn't always a good thing. Horror Nights got popular for a reason, and it wasn't because they had houses and scare zones that were themed to movies and TV shows.

Edited by Goo
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I should have included that the price is also now 90 bucks. It's almost 200 bucks to go on a friday night with an express pass. I honestly can't justify going anymore. There's a point where it just isn't worth it. I'll probably be attending HOS this year. At the end of the night, I wanna feel like my money was well spent... I do agree though. Cabin in the Woods and American Werewolf are very cool houses. But beyond that, I'm not very happy with anything they've revealed this year.

There's no denying that Horror Nights has become something else. It's no longer what it used to be. Sure the idea is still there but it's not the same. I used to be OBSESSED with this event and I followed it religiously. But it's not like that anymore. Sad to say, but that's the truth. You can say reserve your judgement, but these passed years have been disappointing to me and to a lot of other people too. I'm pretty done with reserving my judgement because I know there's a good chance it's gonna be just like last year and the year before that. I'll come back when they go back to the roots of HHN, which was scaring the shit out of people and originality, not recreating movies and tv shows.

And no, I'm not asking them to cater to the fans. That's dumb. But expanding the walking dead really doesn't do a thing. I honestly doubt that it will boost their attendance that much more. Having the house already does that. Like I said, it's overkill. Not every watches the show and not everyone likes it. It also goes against what horror nights was. They can cater to both the fans and the general public and still make a lot of money and maintain the kickass image they used to have. If you think otherwise, you're just a sucker who will say, "well, it's because they're trying to make money." They could easily do both. It's what a smart business who cares about their customers, and their fans, would do. It's what good business would do. You can say it's silly of me to argue with it, but I'm gonna say you're silly for not. Fans are equally as important as the general public.

Selling out isn't always a good thing. Horror Nights got popular for a reason, and it wasn't because they had houses and scare zones that were themed to movies and TV shows.

Goo, the thing you're glossing over is that the market changes as well. What the average customer wanted two, three, or five years ago probably isn't what they want today. The Walking Dead brought in serious business. And there will be seven other houses for people that aren't crazy for TWD. But zombies are still hot right now, as is TWD. While it's a bit unexpected that they went the route they did, it's hardly surprising. This move may go against what Horror Nights is to you, but the event revenue shows that a LOT of people think it's fine as-is. And today's average customer is tomorrow's superfan.

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I should have included that the price is also now 90 bucks. It's almost 200 bucks to go on a friday night with an express pass. I honestly can't justify going anymore. There's a point where it just isn't worth it. I'll probably be attending HOS this year. At the end of the night, I wanna feel like my money was well spent... I do agree though. Cabin in the Woods and American Werewolf are very cool houses. But beyond that, I'm not very happy with anything they've revealed this year.

There's no denying that Horror Nights has become something else. It's no longer what it used to be. Sure the idea is still there but it's not the same. I used to be OBSESSED with this event and I followed it religiously. But it's not like that anymore. Sad to say, but that's the truth. You can say reserve your judgement, but these passed years have been disappointing to me and to a lot of other people too. I'm pretty done with reserving my judgement because I know there's a good chance it's gonna be just like last year and the year before that. I'll come back when they go back to the roots of HHN, which was scaring the shit out of people and originality, not recreating movies and tv shows.

And no, I'm not asking them to cater to the fans. That's dumb. But expanding the walking dead really doesn't do a thing. I honestly doubt that it will boost their attendance that much more. Having the house already does that. Like I said, it's overkill. Not every watches the show and not everyone likes it. It also goes against what horror nights was. They can cater to both the fans and the general public and still make a lot of money and maintain the kickass image they used to have. If you think otherwise, you're just a sucker who will say, "well, it's because they're trying to make money." They could easily do both. It's what a smart business who cares about their customers, and their fans, would do. It's what good business would do. You can say it's silly of me to argue with it, but I'm gonna say you're silly for not. Fans are equally as important as the general public.

Selling out isn't always a good thing. Horror Nights got popular for a reason, and it wasn't because they had houses and scare zones that were themed to movies and TV shows.

They've only revealed 3 things..

Expanding the Walking Dead doesn't do a thing? Have you looked at the response on AMC's Facebook page? Incredibly positive. The same goes for HHN's Facebook page, which is mostly positive with a few scattered complaints here and there. The attendance numbers will speak for themselves. Again, sorry you don't like the theme, but you're very wrong.

IP's have been in the event since it began, so technically it is also in the "roots". Guess what? IP's and movies are what Universal Studios has been all about since the park opened.. "Ride the Movies" anyone? I don't really know what point you're trying to make by saying it goes against what Horror Nights "was".. If you're talking the scare tactics they use and the conga lines, then sorry, that is going to have to happen at the nation's largest Halloween event at the 16th most visited park worldwide in 2012 (IOA was #10, both were in the top 7 in the country). The park has and will continue to grow and learn to deal with higher crowds than ever before, and the event will grow and learn to grow as well. Those ball pit slides and houses where you wear light up helmets are gone and won't ever be coming back, so forget about the past.

They still do cater to the fans. Who do you think last year's Horror Unearthed was for? The fans, who complained to high heavens about there being no interactive games. They still offer things like the Unmasking tour as well. They could EASILY say "screw the fans, we know they'll come anyway" but they don't.

Selling out is always a good thing. I want to see the event and the parks do well. Would you rather the event bombed this year? That would not be good for anybody. Whether people like it or not, this is a business, it will always be a business first, and thats the way it should be.

Edited by Coast
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I agree with points on both sides or the polarized argument.

I understand that the event has to make money.

I understand what I like and what made the event special to me.

Those seem to be opposing ideas.

Of course it always seems to be that when things are going YOUR way then they are doing it right.. and I guess that's natural.

But if you notice when A&D speak. They always pull out their accomplishments. The original content... Their Icons... Their ideas. They don't ever say "Hey look how faithfully we copied TWD". Because they are artists at heart. They like new innovative ideas. I know when I do a project I hate when someone makes me recreate something.

I think to myself "You wanted me to do this but you just want me to copy someone else's ideas? Why did you want me to do it in the first place?"

I know there is a world of difference between the cooporate art they have to produce and the art I choose to produce. But artists are artists.

To me Universal has become commercialized and homogonized and catered to a general populace. It isn't about making the best product artistically anymore but making the most money they can... and their is most people's contention. Now A&D do the best they can with what they are given.. But bottom line is Coporate fights with A&D all the time for what will make them the most money vs. What they want to do.

This year was no exception. I wont go into details but many things involving the streets were completely scrapped in favor of TWD. I get it... it's a biz decision. But it doesn't make more appeal to the serious fan.

People say this is best? Who for I wonder? You like things that are homogonized for the masses? OK. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

I think the bottom line is... IF you like the event and can justify the price then go if not then don't go.

It wont matter to Universal one way or the other.

For me, I'll go once and then I'll judge it. I wont buy my usual ROF, or any of the merchandise I used to buy. In fact I'm selling all that off. I will buy and do what makes me happy and THAT is truly what anyone really cares about. I think I'm outgrowing this event... Or it's outgrowing me. Either way moving on.

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Anyone who regularly reads my posts knows I’m one of the biggest HHN cynics in the community. I stopped attending after 2011 for a few reasons, but predominately because the event as it was stopped appealing to me. My first three years attending were the IoA years, so my mindset on what the event is and is supposed to be is very different from the “Studio” years. That said, I still follow the event for two reasons: the artistry of the event as a whole and the game of speculation.

Now, this post will deal strictly with my perception of the artistry of the event. Most importantly, however, this post is going to directly address the reaction to TWD and the zones. For what it’s worth, I feel my opinion matters because I never had plans on going this year. There is no impact on my expectations for the event, and so this is really a truly disimpassioned perception.

While I agree that a majority of the active community wants the original content A&D is recognized for, the argument that this is a “lazy” idea is so off-base it’s like a homerun at the Citrus Bowl. Designing streets for TWD requires just as much artistic ability and creativity as an “original” content. It’s arguable that it requires more creativity, because you have to make something popular different enough to matter while still being true to the source material.

I could argue all day long that last year’s Legions were just as lazy a concept as all-zombies. It’s not Esquilito Morte, true, but even the most “creative” zones from recent years only had two or three different types of characters (Grown Evil only had three types of costumes). Or, if they had “multiple” characters, they were pulled from an assortment of costumes and masks they already had available (Morphans, Strengoits). If you’re going to hate on the “lack” of creativity, at least be consistent.

The biggest irony I’m finding though, is that the zones we are getting are EXACTLY the types of zone people have been clamoring for for years. Everyone has screamed for the Skool to return to Central Park and Mel’s, and you are now getting the spiritual successor in Herschel’s Barn! You want big, complex set-pieces in New York, and you are now getting a tank (and likely a bunch of other vehicles) in New York. I mean, they’re turning Hollywood into Woodbury! I can’t even imagine the type of set-pieces they’re going to need to build to make that work. Isn’t this exactly what everyone wanted last year; unique sets? That’s what you’re getting.

What is, really, the difference between a hobo in rags from Acid Assault and a zombie in distressed clothing? If it was a zone of any zombies other than TWD zombies, people would be excited (Unless you flat don’t like zombies, like me. But the point remains valid). The concerns about the inability to scare is understandable, sure. But how often do you really get scared at the event, and is that legitimately why you go? The event started losing the potential to be really scary years ago, especially compared to other haunts.

We are a drop in the bucket compared to how many people go each year. If Marketing and Corporate feels it’s beneficial from a business perspective to say, “We’re doing this,” awesome. It’s their job to make those decisions. If you disagree, either shrug it off and attend the event or don’t go. The rants here and on other HHN forums aren’t going to do much good considering Marketing and Corporate doesn’t care unless it affects their bottom line. All the ranting does is insult the creatives who are still creating a hell of a product for the masses.

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OK in my post, I hope it didn't come off that way Jeff. I Admire A&D and I like what they produce. It has nothing to do with them for me and , in fact they have been the reason I have stayed as long as I have. You're right, those sets will most likely be top-notch by requirement and they will have had to figure out how to do that. There is a lot of creativity in the process. Just not the idea.

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OK in my post, I hope it didn't come off that way Jeff. I Admire A&D and I like what they produce. It has nothing to do with them for me and , in fact they have been the reason I have stayed a long as I have. You're right, those sets will most likely be top-notch by requirement and they will have had to figure out how to do that. There is a lot of creativity in the process. Just not the idea.

My post was more generalized than directed. It just timed out after yours.

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