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Wesker's HHN 22 Bogus Journey - Event Review

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~ WARNING ~

GIVE ME A SECOND I... I NEED TO GET THIS REVIEW ALL STRAIGHT. YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT THIS ISN'T FOR THE OVERLY SENSITIVE. IF YOU'RE EASILY OFFENDED, YOU SHOULD MOVE ALONG. THINGS ARE PRETTY DIFF'RENT, I'VE NEVER OPENED WITH A WARNING. AND I KNOW I'M GOING TO SAY SOME THINGS YOU DON'T LIKE. AND YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO COMPLAIN. BUT BETWEEN THE CROWDS, AND THE EXTENDED TIMES, AND ALL THE OTHER STUPID THINGS, OUR SCAREACTORS HAVE TO BE UPSET. THERE WILL BE OPINIONS, AND WHINING, AND SOME OFFENSIVE WORDS. YOU'VE... BEEN WARNED.

"TONIGHT... WE'LL GET DUMB. IT'S A REVIEW FROM THE PAST YEAR. IT'S WHAT WE DO HERE. WE'LL GET DUMB. TONIGHT... WE'LL GET DUMB. IT'S A REVIEW FROM THE PAST YEAR. ITS WHAT WE DO HERE. WE'LL GET DUMB."

SO HEED, THE WARNING. IT'S TIME FOR MY REVIEW.

I. WILL ROCK YOU. TONIGHT.

Currently Listenting to:

Alice Cooper - Welcome To My Nightmare

Alice Cooper - The Last Temptation

Alice Cooper - Welcome 2 My Nightmare

(running time - 2 hours)

EPISODE 1 - THE MARKETING MENACE

The marketing this year was beyond awful. This year was by far the worst as far as marketing the event goes. Seriously, I wasn't even sure if they were marketing the event or TWD tv series. Thats all it was, TWD... vomiting all over everything. I'm not even sure if there was anything else... oh wait.. I think there was a videogame & rock star... but its hard to know for sure with TWD being shoved down our throats. -chokes- There I go, throwing up in my mouth a little.

Speaking of IP's, its pretty awful how UNI royally screwed over Penn & Teller this year. It's ridiculous that they canceled all but like 3 of their shows just to be at the event. They took the time out to help create a house and it wasn't even promoted. There was no billboard, no mention on the tv/radio ad, no merchandise, and no event map cover.

Apparently blowing AMC & dry humping TWD until they're both wet was more important to UNI than promoting something that was exclusive to the Orlando event. Its funny that Hollywood had no problem having a La Llorona & TCM billboard (two houses we didnt have), but god forbid P&T get any recognition here... hell, a billboard featuring all 4 of the IPs would've been better.

The website sucked. The commercial was lame. The radio ad was stupid. The billboards were bland. But yea, the marketing this year was.. just.. so.. shitty. Like Bane's voice from the new Batman shitty, which sounds like Darth Vader & Sean Connery had a baby...

EPISODE 2 - ATTACK OF THE CROWDS

The crowds were beyond awful this year. I went in 2007 & 2009, both years were IP years and I don't remember the crowds being this bad. Sure some of the lines were long, more so in 2009 than 2007, but not like it was this year. It was just awful. Definitely not an HHN experience I want to relive. I even had express, but the lines were so bad that I hardly used it. Okay so one of my friend's didnt have express, so i didn't want to ditch him just to do a house... (yes, i can be nice. Shocking, i know)...

I had heard that they were placing the blame for the extended nights on those with a FFP. I call bullshit on this. Its rather insulting to blame the FFP people for it being so crowded that they need to extend the event hours. I mean come on, the FFP has existed since like 2002. Funny how the past 10 years didn't have this "over crowded" issue. UNI needs to grow a pair and accept that its their fault due to lack of an 8th house, lack of 3rd show, high capacity ride removal, etc.. Its the FFP people that spend the most money that keeps this event going, not the people attending 1 or 2 nights.

Halloween was ridiculously bad with crowds this year. It was not what I was wanting for the final night of HHN. I did stay&scream with a few other forum members (Dave, Steph, Andrew, Kathy, Corey) over in Kidzone... Michele, Mark, Jenn, Kim and a few others were over in the NY stay&scream area. Michele had uploaded a pic of the crowd over there, and when all of us saw that pic... we knew it was going to be a bad night. Corey & I only made it through HoH & AC twice. After our 2nd run-through of HoH, we headed for round 2 of AC... well we saw the queue line for HoH and it was already to Fievel. Seriously, the lines for the houses on Halloween should NOT have been 45 minutes or longer by 7pm. That's ridiculous...

I don't ever want to see another long line again... at least not anytime soon.

EPISODE 3 - REVENGE OF THE STREETS

This year's streets were.. interesting.. and not really in a good way. The scareactors did fine, that wasn't really the problem. The issue with the streets this year was that they had the same size cast as normal, but then put them in the designated areas with free roaming ability making it so the scareactors are so spread out that they get lost within the crowds. You can have a small cast in such a large area, it just doesn't really work. Another issue was that it was very easy to either see the same horde all night long or almost miss all of them entirely.

While Hollywood & NY can easily survive without being "themed" scarezones all there needs to be is fog, cool lighting & free roaming scareactors. However, there is no excuse for the back half of the park not to have regular themed scarezones. You can still give the scareactors freedom to freely roam the surrounding area in order to maintain that "no safe zone" aspect. This year has shown us we can have set pieces all the way back in World Expo.

They can have themed scarezones and free roaming scareactors in order to provide a full experience in the streets. We shouldn't be seeing dead space around the park. The whole free-roaming aspect worked well, but the relocation each set not so much. I'm sure the scareactors enjoyed having a change of scenery to work in, but from a guest point of view... different locations each set doesnt work.

EPISODE 4 - A NEW GAME

Horror Unearthed... This year's version of 2005's online/in-park interactivity & 2008's Legendary Truth. Definitely have to give credit to our "Masters" (Rick, TJ, Ray, Matthew, & Vicky) for creating this experience for us this year. It definitely helped make a less-than-stellar HHN more enjoyable. Between the online games, in-park tasks, and a reason to do the houses more times... it really made this year more fun. The best part is, our "Masters" aren't done yet, the event may be over for this year, but they're still keeping us Legions busy.

The only downside about this new experience was the RFID scanners being all glitchy. Well and of course having to deal with UNI's wonderful lack of wifi/signal for our phones. Between these to things, it made things interesting and sometimes aggravating lol. Despite the glitches, this was definitely something that all of us should be thankful for. They didn't have to go the extra mile for us, but they did. Its nice to know that they care about their fans & it will be interesting to see what they have planned in the future regarding this experience.

Oh and Morhpans rule... we may have slipped out of 1st place and down to 3rd on the leaderboard, but we're still the best. Now we just need to regain our rightful place on the leaderboard. Damn Cerebin & Kerezans!

EPISODE 5 - IP HOUSES STRIKE BACK

We really need to have 8 houses again. Only 7 houses just doesn't cut it. As for the IP houses, sometimes they're good, sometimes they're bad. This year, we had both. This year's houses weren't exactly the greatest, especially the IP houses. They definitely weren't as good (especially TWD & SH) as past IP houses.. As for the houses in general, hopefully like all shelved concepts, we'll see that SS44 "Urban Legends" house (since they do have the Chupucabra masks) come to life in the future.

It's funny how A&D wanted to sort've get away from the whole IP house thing in favor of more original houses, but instead we ended up with TWD & SH due to Comcast wanting to make it cheaper by having both events feature them. IP houses aren't bad, but when they over shadow what A&D is trying to create, thats when it becomes less exciting. Plus when it comes to IP houses, its really about execution & presentation, but unfortunately, it also comes with restrictions and whatnot.

Whether we see more IP houses in the future, which is most likely a good possibility, or not... one thing is for sure.. There needs to be an 8th house.

EPISODE 6 - RETURN OF THE FANBOY

I've been attending HHN since 2005 and this year was definitely the most disappointing. Sure the past 7 years had their downsides, but I was never "meh" about going. I didn't even see B&T until opening weekend because I had heard that it was pretty sucktastic. Although 20 Penny Circus was awful, glad I did that at EP night. This year's event started out bad, but hey.. they were right when they said "It DOES get better"... (wait thats for gay people. "Like being a shirtless morgue ceiling scare gay?" "Like getting pissy from this review gay?" ...oh more like 50 shades of gay). The event had a rough start, but this year turned out to be more enjoyable than I had expected (then again, that could've just been the alcohol).

I ended up actually having a lot of fun this year thanks to the friends I hung out with, friends i saw and new ones i made (yes, this includes even you Corey). If it wasn't for them, I'd probably not have had as good of a time at HHN, especially since I got bailed on (more than once) by a douchebag who was supposed to be my friend :chainsaw: It's his loss though. Anyway, despite the lackluster event this year, its my friends that I have to thank for me enjoying HHN more (well them & mostly the alcohol).

Of course I can't forget about the scareactors. The ones I already knew and the new ones I met this year. They really helped turn this event around. Definitely didn't have as many epic experiences in the houses as i'm used to, but I did get one on Halloween (thanks to Michaelz). Although I already know that some of the scareactors want my head on a platter for not visiting them enough... and one of them has a chainsaw O_O

Overall, this was definitely a "throw-away" year. It wasn't the best HHN, but like I said, I ended up having a lot of fun. Obviously I'm wishing there were more nights, but this is mostly due to not getting all of the pics that I had wanted to get. It sucks, but at least the pics that I did get are pretty good. Plus more nights without it being crowded would be nice. I might not have as many memorable experiences as previous years, but there were a few here/there. Now I just need to finish catching up on sleep...

2 hours later, This concludes PART 1 of my review.

(I got distract- SQUIRREL!!!)

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.... oh....no.... :huh: ........ Don't you know anything... you are never supposed to have a negative opinion of HHN. It is in the rules.. :wacko:

lol I share a lot of the same opinions as this review, that's all I'm going to say. I agree with everything pretty much :mellow:

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I agree with the overall opinion of your review. A very throw away year but not without its charms.

On both nights that I went (one of them being a peak night) the crowds weren't nearly as bad as they were in the 14th year of the event.

Nearly all houses that muggy evening in '04 were nearing 3 hours. Some were even more than that (for the shittiest house that year no less; HELLGATE PRISON).

That said, it was WALKING DEAD that was the main culprit of the crowds this year. I know UNI needs to make money but I really hope they don't repeat a franchise linked house of that magnitude ever again.

Other IP houses over the years haven't had that kind of obnoxious draw considering they were all franchises that were either out of date (NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET, CHILD'S PLAY, FRIDAY THE 13TH, etc.) or unpopular (DEAD SILENCE and DOOMSDAY were both duds at the box office).

WALKING DEAD is a different animal. It's the public's new, shiny, derivative, lowest common denominator toy that everybody currently adores.

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I typically find your reviews hyper-critical but for the overall opinions of the event, I definitely agree. I disagree on some of the content, houses and zones. But other wise, you summed up most people's thoughts.

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PART 2 - THE CHRONICLES OF HHN 22:

The Iniquitus, The Dark Legions, & The Last Minute Additions

Overall, this years streets didn't really impress me. It wasn't the issue of the scareactors or the lack of actual scarezones, but just the overall execution of how the streets were presented. The crowds this year also affected my judgement of the scarezone experience. However, I should mention that I've never really been all that into the whole scarezone thing. I enjoy the atmosFEAR & the scareactor interaction, but other than that, streets don't do much for me. One thing that bugged me this year was that the park was supposed to have a cemetery rising up from beneath it. This is a great idea and all, but it doesn't exactly quite fit the non-vampire legions or Iniquitus. Anyway, here is a breakdown of what I thought about each of the different scareactor legions.

The Iniquitus

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Alright so these guys were more or less the icons of the event this year. I gotta say, they looked pretty cool. In some ways I wish they had gotten more attention. Sure they made great photo-ops (somehow I only got one pic with one of them & this was only because my friend happened to be cast as one that night), but I felt like they weren't fully utilized. Eitherway, I wish there was more backstory provided for them.

One night I saw a non-stilt Iniquitus heading into Central Park... all you could see was his shadowy figure & red glowing eyes within the fog. It made me laugh because all i could think of was a Jawa from Star Wars lol

The Grim Reaper style Iniquitus were probably my favorite ones. Kicking myself for not getting a pic of/with them. I just really liked how they looked. This is something that i'd almost like to see become a tradition each year like how B&T is and how MOTB used to be. Having them in addition to whatever else is created for that year would be great.

______________________________________________________________

DARK LEGIONS:

Traditionals (Morphan)

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Probably the most well loved legion of scareactors due to their antics and constant badgering for candy. This was definitely a more aggressive cast than what was present in 2008's "The Skoolhouse". There were plenty of scares that year, but nothing like the ones this year. The interaction alone is by far much better than expected. At first, I wasn't all that excited about the Traditionals... thankfully they proved to be more than meets the eye. I'm happy to be part of the Morphan legion.

Valdez (foxboy), Victoria (pretty witch), Bruce (owl), Beth (fox girl), Mandy (ballerina?), Chickenboy (real name escapes me), and others definitely brought this legion to life every night.

Vampires (Strengoit)

UYuLz.jpg

The event really needs more vampires... however, the whole "bloody" makeup looks incredibly stupid, tacky & ruins the look. Despite that makeup issue, I really liked this legion of scareactors. Of course I had a total fanboy nerdgasm when I saw they had The Master from Buffy (totally regret not getting a pic with him). I really liked our resident vampire (The Matador), his costume just worked really well. Sure it was most likely a recycled SAW pig cloak, but it just looked cool. The shirtless vampire seriously needed to lose the tri-corner hat & velvet cape. It just looked stupid. There were some other vampires I just wasn't crazy about, but I know they were trying to go for vampires from all eras. I'd definitely like to see a return of the vampires....

An amusing encounter I had on the last sunday night while in Finnegans. I was standing there talking to some friends/fellow forum members, I happen to glance over at the doorway... There's "The Master"... he holds up a blowpop & then motions for me to come out there. So of course I do (thinking I was actually going to get the candy). He holds it out to me, i go to reach for it, and he pulls it away really quickly and lunges at me for a scare before running off into the fog. So mean.. but yet, so awesome lol.

The last sunday night, i was bypassing the crowds by taking the Lagoon pathway through Central Park and happened to run into a cast change with the vampires. Nothing better than being surrounded by the cast as they pass by on my way to the Mel's area. lol

Oh and since the description of a Strengoit is to be seductive, there needs to be some hot half-naked vampires. But yea... I really didn't feel like the vampires really were represented properly.. it should've been like an Orgy of the Fang'd.

(and yes, by definition, I was totally born a Strengoit)

Beasts (Cerebin)

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I didn't really see this legion of scareactors very often. Usually when I did, it was only because of my one friend who wanted to see his friend that was cast as a beast. I never really got the chance to see all of the different masks, but its interesting that some of the beasts had the scrapped Chupucabra masks from the scrapped SS44 house this year. Overall, I just didn't really care too much for the beasts. They weren't bad, I enjoyed watching some of their antics (especially the one who snuck up behind my friend from the other side of the railing in Central Park). Of course, I think I would've rather had werewolves instead..

Shoutout to Cody, Marcus, and others... however, I think Cody was the only one I actually ever saw on set (kidzone/NY) lol...

Warriors (Baccanoid)

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I know Michele and many others loved this legion of scareactors... I didn't really find them to be that exciting. I found the hannibal lector mask/collar thing to be incredibly stupid looking. I only saw them a few times thoughout the event, but like I said, I wasn't exactly impressed with what I saw. Its not really the scareactors fault. Maybe I just needed to some one-on-one time with Michele's Warrior friend Mikey (I know Michele is totally giving me the hands off glare right now lol)... I think I would've like this legion better if they had an actual themed scarezone or a house...

Whats funny is, their origin is Asian, but their online game was Egyptian Hieroglyphs lol...

Prisoners (Maschorian)

biEeA.jpg

My friend Chelsea will have my head via her chainsaw if I say anything negative about these ladies. But like the previous two, I just didn't care for what was presented. I would've rather seen the prisoners in sexed up outfits instead. The orange jumpsuits just so did not work for them. They were aggressive and I know they had to carry around a chainsaw for 45mins each set... but seriously, they should've been doing it in style. I would've been more intimidated if they were sexed up. I only saw the chainsaws a few times, but from what I saw... "meh". Again this isn't the scareactors fault. Although I will say that the things they'd yell out at people were pretty entertaining.

I liked when they'd be in World Expo and you'd be exiting either P&T or AC and you'd have one or two of them waiting in the bushes ready to attack unsuspecting victims in the exit path when they passed by... lol

The Walking Dead (Kerezan)

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OMG... its an actual scarezone! With set pieces and can be found in the same location all night. Yay! As much as I dislike TWD, it was nice having an actual scarezone at HHN this. However due to the AMITY area under construction near by, it made the area extra congested. I liked that they tied the SZ into the house similar to 2010's Zombiegeddon/Zombie Gras. This scarezone really needed a bigger cast (Zombie Gras had the same issue). There also needed to be more lighting, the fire blasts on the rooftop are nice, but don't really work as a light source. I thought the masks looked awful, more amusing than scary. No offense to James & others in this SZ, it was just bad.. The good part was it being an actual SZ, the downside was there not being enough scareactors and lighting. They should've also been able to roam as far down away from Disaster as the San Francisco bathrooms.

_________________________________________________________________

LAST MINUTE ADDITIONS

The streets got poor reviews, which really is no surprise. It's like I mentioned in Part 1 of my review, its very easy to miss most, if not all of the different scarezone hordes throughout the night. So Universal made the effort to cast more scareactors.... but they were the rejects that didn't make the cut during auditions this year. It makes you wonder if any of them had this type of attention seeking reaction to not being cast like some people did last year:

"no cast for me. which royally sucks

Dident get cast for HHN. Since I wasent cast its sad to say but I sorta lost all intrest in HHN in general"

"I was one of the lucky few who dident get selected. F*CK

sad to say but I really dont care about HHN anymore"

In all seriousness though, I'm glad that UNI actually made the effort to "fix" the streets by casting more scareactors. Sure they're the rejects that didn't make the cut the first time around, but at least we have more... unfortunately though, these additions were on the underwhelmingly lackluster side of the obvious limited budget. You could pretty much tell they were a last minute addition. On top of this, these two scarezone additions had no unique music to accompany their presence. They could've at least played the Treaks & Foons burping/farting bubble soundtrack for the "reject" Trick-or-Treaters (?). The zombies should've had some type of technoy-rock style music in their area. Hopefully they cast more people next year to avoid something like this again...

Halloween (party goers?)

This addition was just so awful. It almost would've been better had they not even added it. The costumes looked like someone went on a shopping spree at Party City for the cheapest things available. It was just bad. I would've rather seen past HHN costumes dragged out of storage than what was done with this 'scarezone' lol..

I do have to say though, the last sunday night I was sitting on the bench outside HMU waiting to get in for the Horror Unearthed meetup and there was a cast change. Well this one polka-dot afro circus clown girl (minus the crazy colored wig) came up behind me and bent all the way over the bench so she was staring at me upside down. It was the most amusing thing. Then she went to go terrorize the other people in the area.

Zombies (the good ones, not TWD)

Well these were an improvement over TWD zombies since they moved with (or on) speed. Plus they didn't have crappy looking masks. Of course I somehow didn't really see these zombies too much during the last two weekends, most likely due to the crowds unfortunately. The times that I did see them, they were pretty aggressive. It was a nice addition, but they really could've used some lighting... actually the random strobes on the flag pole gauntlet near Animal Actors in 2010 would've been the perfect thing to have this year. They really should've had this addition added after the 1st weekend rather than towards the end of the event. (again... lighting.. we need lighting)

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I said the same thing about the Warriors when the event started. got Backlash for it, but totally agree, they were my least favorite zone. Whenever I ran up to this zone I always though "Oh no, not the warriors again.... <_< " they had a really good energy but I just don't find Yakuza interesting for a zone,

Was it ever explained why the prisoners were there? or the warriors?

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Oh and Morhpans rule... we may have slipped out of 1st place and down to 3rd on the leaderboard, but we're still the best. Now we just need to regain our rightful place on the leaderboard. Damn Cerebin & Kerezans!

Correction - MORPHANS ARE NOW IN 2ND PLACE ON THE LEADERBOARD.

Time to take down those Kerezans.

~ PART 3 OF MY REVIEW COMING SOON ~

(as in hopefully later today)

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My prediction of Chris' house rankings:

1. The Walking Dead(OMGZ BEST HOUSE EVAR1!!11!!)

2. Silent Hill(AMAZEBALLS)

3. Gothic (SOOO PRETTY AND SCARY)

4. Dead End

5. Penn and Teller

6. Alice Cooper(boring and uninteresting)

7. House of Horrors(sucktastic)

^might have a hint of sarcasm there :rolleyes:

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My prediction of Chris' house rankings:

1. The Walking Dead(OMGZ BEST HOUSE EVAR1!!11!!)

2. Silent Hill(AMAZEBALLS)

3. Gothic (SOOO PRETTY AND SCARY)

4. Dead End

5. Penn and Teller

6. Alice Cooper(boring and uninteresting)

7. House of Horrors(sucktastic)

^might have a hint of sarcasm there :rolleyes:

lol that list is backwards :lol: Alice cooper will be number one.

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Nah im pretty sure its an exact flip. Im definite on the top 2 and bottom 3, but P&T and DE could be switched.

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I see you guys are enjoying yourselves...

Correction - MORPHANS ARE NOW IN 2ND PLACE ON THE LEADERBOARD.

^Correction 2 - MORPHANS are back on top & 1st Place on the leaderboard! :D

~ PART 3 OF MY REVIEW COMING SOON ~

(as in hopefully tonight)

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I said the same thing about the Warriors when the event started. got Backlash for it, but totally agree, they were my least favorite zone. Whenever I ran up to this zone I always though "Oh no, not the warriors again.... <_< " they had a really good energy but I just don't find Yakuza interesting for a zone,

Was it ever explained why the prisoners were there? or the warriors?

Tell me about it. On my second and final visit I couldn't get away from these guys (and not in a good "shit your pants" kinda way either). Everywhere I went in the park, no matter what direction I took, I always managed to run into their set. Couple that with them being my least favorite of the bunch and I had a pretty dull street experience that evening.

The negatives aside, they know how to work the central park area but being that it is very dark it's difficult to screw that up.

I didn't like the legion because I can't fathom what spear wielding warriors have to do with Halloween or horror in general. Not the most frightening or creepy of concoctions.

Edited by YourPallbearer

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I didn't like the legion because I can't fathom what spear wielding warriors have to do with Halloween or horror in general. Not the most frightening or creepy of concoctions.

This sentiment could be said for a lot of things used every year at HHN. Not everything has to have a direct link to "halloween" or "horror" in order to be scary. That's stereo-typing what HHN is supposed to be, which would make the event's content very limited & dull.

The warriors weren't bad, I just didn't care for them without a themed area specifically designed for them. My point is I didn't care for the streets in general, but then again as i posted above.. im not a scarezone type of guy. I enjoy the atmosfear if its good, but thats about it.

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. My point is I didn't care for the streets in general, but then again as i posted above.. im not a scarezone type of guy. I enjoy the atmosfear if its good, but thats about it.

Thats basically my exact view on zones. I didnt even pay attention to them until 2010. They make for great atmosphere and keep the streets from being dull, but i dont pay too much attention to them.

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~ PART 3 ~

KILLER HOUSES FROM OUTER SPACE

This was a somewhat underwhelming year for houses. They were either good or they were bad. Some did sort of fall "In-Between". Pretty much all of the houses this year felt very thrown together or recycled. Each house had its good and its bad, some more so than others. As I said in part 1 of this review, this year seems like a throw-away year...

Now onto more pressing matters regarding this year's houses..... What the hell was with all of the air blasts? I've never been blown that many times during one month than I did this year. Okay I take that back, I got blown a lot going through Forsaken 41 times last year. But still... the air blasts were a bit excessive. Then there were also the water spray effects, which there weren't as many of those as there were air blasts. It almost seemed like they wanted you to get blown & exit the house wet. I'm all for getting blown, but sheesh.. lets not do it in practically every house.

Now comes the time to talk about this year's houses... this took A LOT longer than expected, not to mention I had more to say than I had previously expected. So without any further delay, enjoy... "and may the odds forever be up your butthole!"

Currently Listening to:

Van Helsing - movie soundtrack

Alice Cooper - Welcome 2 My Nightmare

Midnight Syndicate - Out of the Darkness

Midnight Syndicate - The 13th Hour

Midnight Syndicate - Dungeons & Dragons

HALO 4 - game soundtrack

(running time - roughly 6 hours)

UNIVERSAL'S HOUSE OF HORRORS - 38 times

For being so last minute, this house was pretty damn impressive. Sure it lacked the "oh-so-amazing" (recycled) sets found in Gothic, but for what they were able to accomplish in such a short amount of time was well done. They kept adding more details to the scenes all the way into the 3rd weekend of the event. There were things added that I didn't even notice until the final weekend. So yes, those of you who only gave this house a few run-throughs did miss out on a lot. Even after going through 38 times, I'm pretty sure that I didn't see everything that was added. For those that say the house wasn't very detailed, you really need to pull your head out of your ass & open your eyes because there was plenty to see depending on the scene.

After recently seeing the cast pic of this house, its amazing how awesome the house was because the costumes were pretty... bad. It just proves that you don't need amazing looking costumes to have an amazing house. The costumes were very last minute, they didnt even really have their complete costumes until AFTER Employee Preview. Creature from the Black Lagoon for example never even had a bottom half to his costume, at least not a proper bottom half. Taking a close look at the masks, even after wear & tear of use, the same characters weren't exactly identical looking, which again is most likely due to the rushed creation of the masks. As for the cast, a lot of them definitely did NOT fit their role or match their tag-out as far as body double goes like they're supposed to. Now this is nothing against the cast mind you because despite these flaws... the cast did a pretty damn good job at making this house something special. They certainly weren't pampered by nice sets or costumes like the other 6 houses.

The facade (poster) for this house was... yea... this house totally needed a facade. This was really a missed opportunity to reuse 2009's Silver Screams UPT (Universal Palace Theater) facade, especially since the marquee already says "Phantom of the Opera" on it. What bugs me is, they totally could've erected that past house facade because they had plenty of extra space. There was enough space after the finale to have another decently sized scene. So there was definitely plenty of extra space for a facade. They could've shortened the Wolfman scene if needed.

As for the hallway of classic monster posters, I felt that it was a little too dark. You could barely see some of the posters. There should've been flickering cobweb covered lights as if it the power was surging from the "storm". Also, the posters themselves should've been illuminated with a blacklight timed to the sound of thunder/lightning. This simple effect would've given a tease to how you would be seeing the monsters themselves. I can't complain too much since the house was built last minute, so obviously things aren't going to be as perfect as they should be.

Some scenes were obviously better than others, but at least with the minimal set design, you still got the sense of being in each classic monster's territory. Here are my thoughts of each scene...

Wolfman - Thankfully the pathway was fixed for this scene, it was originally way too wide which hindered the scares from the scareactors on either side. Obviously this scene could've been slightly better, but for the short amount of time, it was a good. The downside was that the area for the scareactors were somewhat too big to handle. With some minor tweaking, this issue could've been fixed. The first Wolfman (right side) should've been closer to the beginning of the scene, while the 2nd Wolfman (left side) should've been a little closer to the exit. One of the neat details about the scene was the pentagram on the wall to the right of the exit, along with the poem "Even a man who is pure in heart, and says his prayers by night, may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms, and the autumn moon is bright."

Brides of Dracula - Not exactly the best scene, but it worked for the most part. The funny part about this scene was when they added Dracula's arm/hand reaching out of the coffin... that stupid prop scared me at least 3 different times. The Brides themselves worked their butts off covering every arch along the half-circle... it worked well due to the mirrors behind them not casting a reflection. I'd almost want to say there should've been a 3rd bride in the scene scaring from the corner right next to Dracula's coffin as you exit the scene.

Dracula - One of the most under-appreciated scenes of this house. Most people whined about the lack of scares within the corridor itself, this is due to them missing the point that its supposed to be an "endless corridor".. It was nice how much detail was added to this hallway and it really made a difference. The wind/water-spray effects could've been tweaked a bit to be better, but I can't complain too much seeing as the house was a last minute erection. The actual scare from Dracula at the end of the hallway was great and pretty effective... especially if you're pre-occuppied looking up at the Dracula dummy above in the arched window.

Mummy - From what I was told, this scene originally had you literally on your hands/knees in order to make it through before the ceiling was raised higher so that way it'd be easier for guests to experience. Personally, I felt this gimmick was poorly executed. Having the Mummy in the wall with an air-blaster was rather lacking. Now the "feelers" on either side of the floor along the walls was a nice touch in order to simulate scarab beetles. It was rather pointless for them to have a net above guests with 2 dummies.. especially since there was no reason for anyone to look up at them. What would've made this scene so much cooler would be if the Mummy was in the floor similar to 2010's Legendary Truth ghost-floor hallway. On top of this, they should've had an effect that made it look as if sand was pouring in from the cracks, essentially sealing your fate.

As for the Mummy at the end of the tunnel, he was poorly placed. Had there been a sarcophagus directly across from the tunnel exit for him to stand in, I believe he'd be a more effective scare. However, being directly next to the exit of the scene would've also been an effective placement.

Regarding the alternate route- it was surprisingly well detailed and the "tombed Mummy" is able to scare/air-blast you from this side as well. However, like I said above.. the 2nd Mummy in the scene has a horrible location due to being directly in the path of those using the alternate route.

Creature From The Black Lagoon - Its better down where its wetter, but in this case, its a surprisingly dry scene. No water-spray effect, no bubbles, nothing to help with the illusion of being underwater. However, there was a boat (painted black) on the right side hanging from the ceiling, which was supposed to provide the illusion we were underwater.

As for the Creature himself, i've been told that the masks were very difficult to see out of, which is reason for some of the poorly timed attacks. Now despite the limited vision, the scareactors definitely got some great scares.

FUN FACT: The boat hanging from the ceiling was one of the props from the JAWS queue.

Phantom of the Opera - Hated this scene in 2009, still hate it in 2012. Sure the Phantom gets scares from the air-blasts from the organ... but thats just a cheap gimmick. I really think it diminishes the potential for a real scare provided by the scareactor. The only way this scene would actually be somewhat decent is if it was part of a Phantom of the Opera house... but as a multi-movie/monster house scene, it fails.

Frankenstein - Can we say "Dungeon of Terror"? This was a great scene because you had the Frankenstein monster on the right, but on the left behind the bars was Dr Frankenstein himself providing a lot of the scares. Whats funny is, I never realized the body of Fritz off to the side of the dungeon, I always thought it was a 3rd scareactor waiting to attack until I really got a good look. Out of the 38 times I went through this house, I only saw the body "swing" once (its the same dummy on a sliding track effect we've seen used before). Unfortunately during the final weekend of HHN, they put a beam across the cell bars, hindering Dr Frankenstein's more aggressive scares.

Bride of Frankenstein - This was definitely one of the main highlights of the house. Not because of the Bride (unfortunately), but because of the Frankenstein attack. Leave it up to Frankenstein to steal the spotlight. In regards to Charging Frankenstein, for the idiots who "heard it took some time to master this effect".. Are you kidding me? it took time for them to finish building the damn house and to get a complete costume, NOT to "master" the scare. The timing was easy.. you'd hit the eprom, wait 4 seconds, and then begin rampage. There was no "mastering the effect". Although compared to laying in a ceiling for 45mins dropping your arm down from above I guess this scene would seem challenging. Anyway, I had a great experience in this scene on Halloween night when Frankenstein captured me & then threw me towards the exit lol.

Finale - I had actually expected the finale to be close to what was created, only the actual execution of it was much better than what I was expecting. The giant hanging films strips, the mirrored walls, and then all of the monsters... it just made for an amazing finale to this house. I definitely got quite a few scares from this scene, which was somewhat unexpected. Like others, I also got turned around once or twice only to realize there was a mirror infront of me lol. Of course the best moment was when I got hugs from Creature from the Black Lagoon (twice)..

Honestly, I would love to see this house brought back & given the proper execution it deserves. I'd love to see how much better it could be if given the amount of time the other houses got. Overall, this was definitely one of the best houses at HHN 22.

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ALICE COOPER: WELCOME TO MY NIGHTMARE - 43 times

Originally, I didn't believe the rumor about an Alice Cooper house, but then when the rumor seemed to be solid I was a little more open to the idea. I was told that the AC:WTMN house in Hollywood was good, so this got me a little more eager to experience it. Now I have to admit, when I first went through the house, I wasn't all that impressed. As I previously stated in my EP & opening weekend reviews, the house wasn't bad, but it wasn't great either. To be fair, I didn't really pay too much attention to what I was seeing the first 10 times. The only thing that really stuck out to me was hearing "No More Mr Nice Guy" (which is sort've fitting for me lol). However, when I actually took the time to give the house a chance, I started to enjoy it more.

As many others have said before (myself included), it was very difficult to hear the music in each scene, some more so than others. This really hindered the experience. On top of this, some of the scareactor placement/interaction was poorly executed. Unfortunately, some of the things that could have been easily fixed weren't taken care of. Chris (Carnage) recently posted a quick write-up of what the house's backstory was in the AC thread. Subconciously, I guess I was able to pick up on what he said after having gone through the house, more so than I had originally thought. So it was definitely not that hard to understand despite what some people might think, it just took a few run-throughs.

I was looking at the cast group pic and it amazed me how different Steven's mom looked outside of the kitchen scene. I almost didn't recognize her lol.

The facade itself I felt could've been a lot better. Actually it really only needed minor things to make it better. The speakers should've been inside over-sized boxes made to look like speakers that are twice the size. Having the speakers inside something would've also prevented them from having to be covered up with black trashbags due to rain. The eyes of Alice Cooper should've have nightclub style lighting coming from them, afterall this is a rockstar house. There should've also been some slight fog coming out of his mouth (aka- house entrance). The biggest change would be to have the brick wall that says "Alice Cooper" moved to the other side of the pathway, so guests would pass behind it, allowing others to actually see it. If possible, I would've had small flames shooting up from the two lamp posts every so often. Speaker boxes, lighting, fog, fire... it would've given the facade a presence it was lacking.

As for changes in the house scenes...

Scene 2 should've allowed the nurse to pace back-n-forth instead of being trapped behind the Steven dummy.

Scene 4 had the potential for a great scare from the Showman (well the dummy of him). Steven's Mom & Dad really needed to have more interaction, especially since they're supposed to be arguing & young Steven is hiding while saying "Stop! Stop it!".

Scene 5 really needed an eprom for the cheerleader. It was almost pointless to have her across from the Jock if she didn't have some type of audio/lighting

Scene 7... the stripper.. yes, totally my favorite scene. NOT! While the stripper was "dead on her feet" (pun totally intended for Cast A's original stripper), this scene could've been executed better. First of all, this scene should've been covered in "ice" with an attempt at being "cold". Some low lying fog would've helped as well. The Stripper herself should've also been given a more corpse-like appearance.

Finale should've been slightly bigger.. and they had the extra space for it to be too which is rather annoying. You've got AC & Steven attacking you from either side, but the Showman who is in control should have more of a presence. As a distraction, I feel his spot just wasn't attention grabbing enough.

As enjoyable as the Black Widow room was... all I could think about was The In-Between's string room of doom from last year. Sure the scene worked for the house, but it felt rather lazy since the strings were replaced by black rubber tubing & wires. At least have the decency to reuse the mirrored floor/walls too. I just think they could've created something a little better... At least the Black Widow "Nurses" were HOT... Definitely a sexy outfit.

Oh and the ceiling scare. what a complete joke. This hallway between the stripper & Morgue AC was just pointless. And an arm dropping down from above is not scary, yea i'm looking at you Cast A. Talk about someone who should not have been cast in a shirtless role. He totally doesn't have the body for it. Seriously, put a shirt on & keep it on. At least the ABU on the first sunday night had a shirtless worthy body.

Overall, I found this house to be quite enjoyable most of the 43 run-throughs. Were the casts perfect? of course not, but that's not their fault. They had limitations on what they could do, but sometimes there is a weak link on your cast. Cast A had two weak links... only one was fixed, the other was still "hanging around" from above in the morgue.

Oh and one thing that I find hilarious is that after so many times through the house, I know there were details that I missed. I never noticed the dead fetuses(?) in Scene 2 until Halloween night lol. FML.

After so many times through the house, I now find myself willingly listening to Alice Cooper... obviously I was familiar with some of his songs, which I wasn't aware of initially, but I enjoy more of his music even more thanks to HHN this year.

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PENN & TELLER NEWKD LAS VEGAS 3D - 13 times

Wait... I don't remember this house being advertised. Ah yes, that's right.. because the house created by Penn & Teller exclusively for HHN Orlando was completely neglected by marketing. This house really should've been promoted better (like I mention in Part 1), more so than TWD. At first, I was excited for this house, then my excitement died down a little when I first saw the promo pic of P&T infront of the facade with a few of the scareactors. On top of that, I wasn't exactly crazy about the house being in 3D, despite "The In-Between" being one of the best houses last year. It actually turned out to be a decent house. Not great, but not awful.. still one of the better houses this year though.

OMGZ there was a queue video.. the first queue video for Sprung Tent 2 since... 2006's "People Under The Stairs: Under Construction", which was 6 years ago. Definitely overdue. Of course it was a quite lengthy queue video so I only saw a few minutes of it here/there. They really should've had a 2nd projector further down the side of MIB for those waiting in the queue down at the far end. Three projectors probably would've been best, but at least a 2nd one would've been better than just the one. Especially when you think of how long that waittime got each night.

The house was definitely a "Penn & Teller Presents" type of house, so there really wasn't a lot dealing with them specifically except for the one backstage scene. So for those who claim that they like this house because you've "always been a huge fan of P&T", go back and read the previous sentence. The house had very little to do with P&T other than their name being slapped on the title.

Now as for the interactive features in the house, they were fun.. Yay there are buttons to push & a rope to pull....

As for the 3D aspect, that was practically non-existant. I think I wore the 3D glasses in the house a total of 2 out of the 13 times I went through. Obviously the 3D gimmick was a way for them to say that the 3D glasses would protect us from the radiation, however I feel the house should've scrapped the whole 3D aspect completely. It just wasn't necessary.

Some of the scenes just felt like wasted space. Nothing against Armando (King K), but the wedding chapel scene was just poorly handled. Having all 3 scareactors right there by the exit of the scene just seemed pointless. A lot of the scareactor placement was just awkward. The Bride/Groom being after the honeymoon suite. The hazmat suit scareactor shoved into the poker chip scene with the showgirl & blackjack dealer. I loved the LED room, just not the scareactors in the scene. It seemed somewhat challenging for the scareactors in the slot machine scene. I only saw the 2nd clown once out of the 13 times going through this house.

Its odd looking at what the cast looks like outside of their scenes and as a group. I honestly didn't really care for the masks at all. Most of the costumes felt very cheap & cheesy, but not in a good way. I think the costumes could've been a lot better.

I got a total of 5 scares (blackjack dealer, chef, x3 clown), but unfortunately these only occured during the first 4 run-throughs of the house. It wasn't so much the cast's fault for the lack of scares, but more so the novelty of the house wearing off after like 5 visits. I was almost going through the house just to push the buttons & pull the rope. I think the 3D aspect of the house is what held it back from its full potential. Like I said, it wasn't a bad house, it just wasn't given the best execution.

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THE WALKING DEAD: DEAD INSIDE - 5 times

This is what you call a sleeper hit... and I don't mean that in a good way. It was by far one of the most bland, boring, and generic zombie houses ever. However, this is no surprise considering that the tv series the house is based on is also bland, boring, generic and a complete crapfest. I'm not even sure how I made it through Seasons 1 & 2, but I gave up after a few minutes of Season 3's first episode (best decision ever). The ONLY thing scary about this house was the waittime and the thought of actually waiting that long. The only reason why I went through this house to begin with was due to having friends on the cast who would've had my head if I didnt visit them when they were on set (of course I only got their cast twice + a cast change exit).

Like the scarezone, the house featured shitty masks. Seeing the cast group pic almost made me not like the masks even more. On top of this, the sets supplied details that were nods to the tv series, but otherwise very generic settings. The facade was underwhelming and it was almost like they recycled last year's BloodenGutz facade & 2010's Zombiegeddon facade to create the hospital facade. There was just nothing memorable to be found here.

There was a queue video... oh wait, that was just a Season 3 promo with the cast talking about the tv series. Instead of showing that stupid promo, they should've actually been showing Seasons 1-2 as the queue video. Or even a montage of scenes... possibly even the scenes that will be experienced in the house itself.

The first run-through of this house had a pretty impressive gauntlet exit finale... however, the other three times were lackluster and missing a lot of scareactors. Now there was one other decent exit experience and that was when a cast change happened before walking into the house. Having the entire other cast lined up at the exit was impressive especially when you have a few who know you lol.... and unfortunately, that full cast immersion was the only redeeming quality this house had.

I know AMC was watching TWD house like a hawk. Yay for restrictions.

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DEAD END - 8 times

The haunted edition of hoarders... with cool effects. One of the things I didn't really like about this house was the set design. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't very exciting either. A lot of the scenes felt like wasted space. And then of course there are the multiple transitional hallways of nothingness.

One of the big things that hindered the house experience was the lack of queue video. Along the lack of backstory being known... and lets not forget the backstories for each of the scareactors. I'm sure the house would've actually been more enjoyable if I knew what each of their backstories were. You can't do a house like this without providing the proper advance intro. This is why there is a website.. This is also why queue videos are helpful.

Speaking of the scareactors and their backstories. It was odd actually seeing the cast group pic and being able to really see what they all looked like in somewhat better lighting. Some of them I could pick out which scareactor belonged in what scene, others I couldn't.

I got about 2-3 scares on my first run-through of the house... unfortunately, the other 7 times were underwhelming and "meh". The house had the details, some of which really get lost within the barely there lighting. The effects in the house were definitely the redeeming quality the house had going for it. The spinning tunnel was completely pointless. Yes, they tried something new with it, but for me... it failed completely. Without the dissorienting effect the tunnel is supposed to provide, it just seems stupid to even use it.

If you claim you got scared every time you went through this house, then you're a complete wuss. Oh i'm sure the cast was "top notch crazy every time"... but give me a break. The house lacked scares after the first run-through. It was very inconsistant due to the scareactor placement. You end up seeing the scares ahead of time completely killing the scene. The bathroom scene definitely had the advantage for scares along with one or two other scenes, but the rest of the house just didn't really work (except for the effects of course).

It wasn't a bad house, but it just did nothing for me after the 2nd or 3rd time through it. Good effects though (except for the spinning tunnel).

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GOTHIC - 8 times

I was really looking forward to this house... Gargoyles.. how does that NOT sound awesome? well... unfortunately, my excitement died down just from the crappy unfitting name of the house.. "Gothic". I mean seriously, how did that even make it on the list of potential house names? Then I saw the costumes, which... also sort've killed my excitement. I wasn't expecting full on stone-looking gargoyles, I expected at least a few, it not most, to have actual skin. Then to make their faces resemble different animals seemed a little lame since they should appear more menacing & demonic. The cast group pic allowed for a better look & I still didn't care for what I saw.

Now lets look at the set design... ah yes, gray stone walls.. definitely the best looking thing i've ever seen... oh wait, no its not. A good portion of Gothic's set is recycled from last year's Forsaken. Complete with the same "finale" scare. I don't mind recycling, I'm all for it, but at least do it in a way that doesn't allow you to instantly recognize where it was used before (especially don't copy scenes directly from a previous year). Everyone claims the house is just soo amazing looking, when in reality, its rather plain throughout most of the house.

OMGZ there were flying scareactors in the house... oh wait... been there, saw that. Seriously, the whole flying gimmick is rather old and played out now. Its time to move on to new ways to "wow" people. The flying gargoyle scenes were so underwhelming, especially when two of them were just used last year. The rooftop starry night flying gargoyle also left something to be desired.

The scares set up in the house were almost laughable. You could easily tell where a scareactor would be attacking from due to the poorly designed set up. Lets not even talk about the distraction scare attempts. I didn't even notice the scareactor in the ceiling or the one near it until maybe about my 5th or 6th time through the house due to being more interested in the chapel mirror effect. They really should've used the dropping floor effect from 2007's Dead Silence..

This house would've been more impressive back in 1998 when it was originally designed. Back then, it would've probably been scary and flying scareactors would have been mind blowing. Unfortunately, this house left something to be desired. It was "pretty", it was over-rated and not much more than that. The ONLY redeeming quality it had other than being pretty was the stilt gargoyle. He was the best part of the house (on both casts).

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WELCOME TO SILENT HILL - 8 times

This was the one house that I expected to scare me a little, but it failed miserably. Sadly the underwhelming movie was a lot creepier than the actual house. This was definitely a disappointment. There really wasn't any actual scare potential with the execution of this house, at least not to me.

I was hoping the house would be similar to the videogame, which I've never played... rather than the movie, which I've seen. Unfortunately, this wasn't the case. On top of that, there was a complete lack of effects... there really should've been a scrim effect that shifts you between Fog World & Other World, especially since they had the siren. It was also a little too bright in the house. A flickering light effect that occasionally made it darker would've been nice. Hell, even the dreaded helmet lights from 2005 (Terror Mines)/2006 (PUTS: Under Construction) would've probably improved this house. Making it darker would've at least helped amp up the lack of scares.

The facade was actually nice, but there really should've been a "wall of fog" directly after the "Welcome to Silent Hill" sign. Then after the police officer shoots at the walking vagina monster, there should've been a scrim effect when the siren goes off before you enter the short chainlink fence segment.

The scene with the nurses was a total waste. Walking past a few nurse mannequins isn't creepy or scary. Now if we had been forced to walk through them similar to how it is in the movie & 2008's Dead Exposure "crowded room"... THAT would've made it better.

The only redeeming quality this house had was Pyramid Head and the sword effect. The sword effect was cool, but it was also very easy to miss.

Had this house been a scarezone instead, I think it would've worked better. Of course having seen a video of Hollywood's failed attempt at a SH scarezone, I have to wonder if Orlando could've actually done better. There are most likely plenty of "monsters" that could've been used. So I still say it should've been a set scarezone somewhere instead of a house.

___________________________________________________________

Many long hours later... this concludes Part 3 of my review.

(Part 4 will hopefully be posted soon.)

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Creature From The Black Lagoon - Its better down where its wetter, but in this case, its a surprisingly dry scene. No water-spray effect, no bubbles, nothing to help with the illusion of being underwater. However, there was a boat (painted black) on the right side hanging from the ceiling, which was supposed to provide the illusion we were underwater.

As for the Creature himself, i've been told that the masks were very difficult to see out of, which is reason for some of the poorly timed attacks. Now despite the limited vision, the scareactors definitely got some great scares.

FUN FACT: The boat hanging from the ceiling was one of the props from the JAWS queue.

^totally forgot to address the "moving floor" effect... or lack thereof.

You were supposed to be underwater, specifically below the dock. The railing & poles on either side were actually the support structure for said dock. Unfortunately the effect never really worked like it should have thanks to them not ever fixing it. But basically the floor was supposed to shift & sway a little as if its moving with the water current or something to that effect. Eitherway, had the floor effect been "active", it would've really improved the scene... even if only a little bit.

As for my comment about a water spray effect, I should've been more specific. The water spray would've been at the entrance & exit of the scene, so it'd be almost like a wall of water in a way. But.. still think they should've found a way to incorporate bubbles into the scene. even if they were bubble lamps of some kind.

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I was waiting for this, Thank you for posting it.

lol this has to be the most negative review I've read this year :lol: I love it!

I disagree about Dead End. Dead End was a lot scarier than the rest of the houses except House of Horrors. I mean Dead End was darker it didn't have as much light as Silent hill for example and the scares were better placed than Walking Dead or Penn and Teller, for me it worked because of that. some of the costumes were scary looking as well. I mean, I never got scared in Alice Cooper or Penn and Teller or even Walking dead, not like I did here, so I really don't think I am a wuss lol :lol: but Dead End scared me at least twice every time I went in this house.

I really really loved Dead End. I think it was the only house this year that was really amazing.

I completely agree with everything you said about Penn and Teller, you are right about everything you wrote. I stopped going to this house like the second week of the month, There was just no redeeming quality to keep going, after a couple of times it was just meh.

I also agree with Walking Dead and Silent Hill. I pretty much said the same thing you said about those hoses.

Edited by Mr. Black

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lol this has to be the most negative review I've read this year :lol: I love it!

^you say "negative"... I say "truthful" & not sugar coated like most reviews are. I dissected the two houses people expected me to fap over. But I guess I could've just done a house review like this...

"OMGZ EVERY HOUSE WAS MIND BLOWINGLY AMAZEBALLS! THEY WERE SUPER SCARY! I ALMOST PEED MYSELF! BEST. HOUSES. EVER!"

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Scene 5 really needed an eprom for the cheerleader. It was almost pointless to have her across from the Jock if she didn't have some type of audio/lighting

She did have an audio trigger. The sound didn't make any sense with the scene it was in but it was there. People just paid more attention to the jock because he was out in the open. If that didn't work (most of the time because of people not paying attention) she did get scares using her last minute plastic megaphone.

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Ohhhh... I don't think I ever saw the last minute megaphone. (which is odd, because you'd think I would have). Ah okay... so she was supposed to have sound. Well that solves that problem then...

Speaking of audio... I don't know why the sound wasn't swapped for the Jock & Steven's dad in the "Vengeance is Mine" hallway. It was always amusing hearing insults coming from these two. Definitely needed to be fixed or they should've swapped spots.

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