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HHN XXI Speculation II

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Okay so in talking about this year's theme risk and chance are important. However Chance the Clown isn't from my general understanding.

Also, I hate to be that person but, I was talking to my friend who was able to talk to one of the painters working in the JAWS house and the word Roulette came into play. Take that as you wish but a casino in the boardwalk section of the park seems to make sense but ive heard conflicting reports over the location of a casino house. Ive also heard possibly one in the SS but the time table for the house and our 1930's isnt matching up.

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OK I have just read the last couple of pages of spec and first I am quite exited by the new show. BUT, it will NOT replace Bill & Ted! There WILL be a Bill & Ted show again this year, as it is specifically mentioned on the site!

The 1920s were very interesting years in history, and so was the decade preceding them.

It has been well established that movie adaptations will primarily be used at HHN in Hollywood, but I have some reason to believe we may still see some thing from the movies here this year.

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OK I have just read the last couple of pages of spec and first I am quite exited by the new show. BUT, it will NOT replace Bill & Ted! There WILL be a Bill & Ted show again this year, as it is specifically mentioned on the site!

The 1920s were very interesting years in history, and so was the decade preceding them.

It has been well established that movie adaptations will primarily be used at HHN in Hollywood, but I have some reason to believe we may still see some thing from the movies here this year.

Really hope you're wrong about that last statement, Dr. Jimmy. I am not a fan.

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OK I have just read the last couple of pages of spec and first I am quite exited by the new show. BUT, it will NOT replace Bill & Ted! There WILL be a Bill & Ted show again this year, as it is specifically mentioned on the site!

The 1920s were very interesting years in history, and so was the decade preceding them.

It has been well established that movie adaptations will primarily be used at HHN in Hollywood, but I have some reason to believe we may still see some thing from the movies here this year.

I 100% agree with you Jimmy. Universal has a reputation of promoting their movies in the past few years.

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The THING is a given. Maybe they'll upgrade it to a soundstage/parade building this year - at the very least keep it in a tent. Looking forward to some new animatronic/puppet goodness... hopefully they're a little more careful in how they're placed though, so the drunks don't destroy them by week 2.

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When they do the icon this year I hope they give it an awesome back story. The character needs to have an actual name and not just "Luck" or "Fate". I think with Fear they learned that people weren't as intrigued by a vague icon. With the other icons we got to learn about them. Fear was just thrown in our face and we were told to accept it. If Universal makes an icon like Fear again it will be very disappointing, plus the human qualities that the icons have seem to work and make them more marketable. Fear was rarely shown in promos with just brief glimpses of him. Hopefully they go back to what has worked before and go back to an icon with the qualities we love.

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Movie houses aren't necessarily bad, it's all in the execution. Dead Silence and The Thing, as well as parts of both All Night Die Ins are excellent examples. By the same logic, non-movie houses aren't always good, either...in fact, some of the worst houses in HHN history have been purely original ideas. Terror Mines and Where Evil Hides are prime examples of this. There are others.

This is showbiz, folks, and in showbiz it ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it.

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So, I was thinking about the back story and premise possibilities if there is to be a male/female duo as icons. The first thing I thought of was killers or what have you that took advantage of Black Tuesday and the Great Depression to entice people to wager their lives for monetary security. But wasn't the back story for the LT house last year was that the couple or husband murdered everyone at their party on Black Tuesday? Do you guys think that if there is to be a duo this year that their story would be based off the Depression era? Or maybe during the 20's this possible couple was so disgusted with the consumer culture and lust for money that decided to kill people?

I'm just tossing ideas out there to see if any stick or even sound remotely possible.

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What about any of the houses being based off of video games? BioShock anyone? That would be an amazing house in my opinion, even though I know it probably won't happen due to people speculating this in years past.

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I don't think we would get a video game house, sadly due to the connotations and stigma people have with video games. Unless that video game has already been a popular movie, such as Resident Evil or something. I'm not an avid gamer at all, I play the sims at best. But Bioshock is a FANTASTIC game, one of the few I've played. And as much as I love it, I don't think it would work just yet as a house. Although, last time I checked there was talk of taking the Bioshock franchise and making a movie. So maybe sometime in the future, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

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Houses directly based on video games are not going to happen. Along with the licensing fees, gaming still has an attached stigma as a hobby of nerds and school shooters. Until it's considered an art form on par with literature and film, we're not seeing Bioshock (which I believe is THE most requested game for a house. Like, seriously.)

That doesn't mean A&D won't lift neat ideas from games that they've played or see on YouTube, though. Just like they might take some stuff from a popular horror movie, they might try their hand at a house based in an underwater base/city or dealing with genetic modification giving people superpowers.

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CODE NAMES

So, I talking with Dr. Raymond Holmes on Rumors and he was nice enough to give me some possible code names for houses:

Chance

Fate

Death

Luck

Consequences

Risk

Odds (?)

House (?)

Spec away.

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The code names are interesting. Who knows what the actual houses are though.. They could really be anything. What if each house has it's own icon? No one beats the House.. But what about Chance, Fate, Death, Luck, Risk, and Odds? Consequences doesn't really fit, though. But it could.

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CODE NAMES

So, I talking with Dr. Raymond Holmes on Rumors and he was nice enough to give me some possible code names for houses:

Chance

Fate

Death

Luck

Consequences

Risk

Odds (?)

House (?)

Spec away.

wow this years codenames (if they are) are super vague

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I'm sorry, I don't post here much but I had to say something. Why does speculation always somehow turn to Bioshock? No matter how many times it is said this won't happen someone comes in and brings it up again. Bioshock is not going to be a house. This year or next. Besides that the game is now a few years old and we are now instead looking torwards Bioshock: Infinite. My point is this is not getting us any closer to figuring out what this year might be. There is a wish list thread for these things. And I don't care how much you might want it but nothing points to it and all the reasons why it couldn't happen have been pointed out. So why not put it where it belongs and we can add to this thread. And to do just that here are my thoughts on a few things.

I don't see Cindy happening. The amount of convolusion that would have to happen to make this fit her story would destroy her character. Her icon status ( if you can call it that having never had an entire event to herself) is that of her as a child. To make her grown up to fit this story would basically make her someone else. The general public won't know it's the same girl they'll just know this is a girl named Cindy and make no connection. Also why is it that a small mention of fire brings up Cindy? The original story of Eddie was him getting disfiguered by fire. Fire isn't just associated with her.

As for Chance, yes please. I fell in love with her last year. And since there is no backstory for her creating one wouldn't be a process of continuity error, twisting, or shoving a round peg into a square hole story wise like it would be for Cindy. And since she isn't really at icon status this wouldn't be a rehash of old icons. But with it being "a new decade of horror" (or whatever it was) even this doesn't seem likly ( though right now subtle clues do point to Chance, even more so than Cindy unless you twist things to fit what you want).

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Movie houses aren't necessarily bad, it's all in the execution. Dead Silence and The Thing, as well as parts of both All Night Die Ins are excellent examples. By the same logic, non-movie houses aren't always good, either...in fact, some of the worst houses in HHN history have been purely original ideas. Terror Mines and Where Evil Hides are prime examples of this. There are others.

This is showbiz, folks, and in showbiz it ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it.

Agreed. Universal seems to nail the movie houses more so then originals most of the time which is no problem with me cause thats what they specialize in, I expect more out of movie houses then originals since they have alot of source material to work with and 85% of the time I believe they do a better job with movie houses then originals. Just my 2 cents.

Edited by Venom

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Having read last pages of spec, and after reading the Official Press Release, and the possible code names, there are some things that we know for sure right now:

1. This year's theme will be DEFINITELY a Casino theme, or at least the main house will be Casino themed.

2. The setting will be in the 20's or 30's

3. The name "Luck" (capitalized) is everywhere. There are some interesting statements in the official press release like "You are captivated by an intense desire to tempt fate" "Desire seduces you…" "Luck will run out as you are consumed..." which led me to think that this year's icon will be a woman named LUCK (maybe it's too obvious).

So, my wild guess is that there will be a Casino/Prohibition Era house, in the same fashion of the Universal Palace Theater, but this time the main icon will be a woman, maybe some Jessica Rabbit kinda girl obsessed with knives (queen of spades anyone?) who seduces you inside the casino and then kills people in the back room...or maybe a really big multiple choice casino house, with multiple paths, or doors, in where you have to spin a wheel or make a decision to which way to go...I don't know, just throwing some ideas.

What do you think?

Anyway, I hope they'll bring us an all original awesome HHN this year.

So far, it looks good.

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CODE NAMES

So, I talking with [someone who technically shouldn't be named here] on Rumors and he was nice enough to give me some possible code names for houses:

Chance

Fate

Death

Luck

Consequences

Risk

Odds (?)

House (?)

Spec away.

Those are NOT official code names for the houses, rather they represent speculation on the part of that person based on Legacy's own speculations he has presented both here and on Rumors.

However, it has sparked an idea in me about the possibility of this year's Icons.

In pre-Christian religions there is the concept of the Great Triple Goddess, sometimes seen as Hecate with Her Three faces: Maiden, Mother and Crone.

This archetype appears throughout many traditions and remains powerful in human consciousness. In dealing with this year's themes and possible Icons, I can't help but think about the figures from Greco-Roman Mythology, The Fates.

These three Goddesses are:

Clotho or Nona - who spins the thread of life and thus can be seen as an aspect of the Mother as she begins each person's life.

Lachesis or Decima - who determines the length of the thread and thus determines what happens during each person's life.

Atropos or Morta - who cuts the thread and thus can be seen as a Death Goddess.

These three are paralleled in Norse mythology by the Three Norns, also three Goddesses of Fate, and by the Three Weird Sisters of Shakespeare's Scottish Play. (Weird being an old English word for Fate, has only recently become a word meaning "strange")

These are not merely worshipped by Neo-Pagans or Wiccans today but also by the nearly 1 Billion practitioners of Hinduism who revere Durga, the Mother, Lakshmi Goddess of Fortune, and Kali, Death.

So it would be very interesting if the folks at Universal's A&D were to tap into this archetype in this year's event by presenting Three Female Icons!

Chance, Luck and Fate.

Chance who gives you the chance of life, Luck who determines the outcome of life, and Fate who ends life. Together these three would collectively personify the Three Fates and also Death itself.

Thus there would be no need for a fourth male version of Death.

This is just speculation from a Professor of Religion, but it would also mean that another idea I threw out there jokingly on April Fool's Day, that there could be a Three-In-One Icon, may actually come true after all!

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I think the music on the website is more in line with a western saloon than a prohibition era. Couple that in with the severed hand which I think is a play on "Dead mans hand" in poker named after Wild Bill Hickock. I am starting to wonder if the icon might not be some sort of play off of Al Swearengen from the HBO Deadwood series (who in turn is based upon a real person of history).

For somebody who watched Deadwood and have seen how terrifying that character was, one cant help but hope.

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So I know that someone had posted the Story of "The Queen of Spades", which is actually and opera. However, I found this link The Queen of Spades a movie made back in 1949. Interesting plot and storyline.

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There was another thing I forgot to address in my earlier posts. Legacy has stated that he believes LT will not happen this year, because nothing with LT has been updated yet.

But last year the first update for LT was on August 2.

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Those are NOT official code names for the houses, rather they represent speculation on the part of that person based on Legacy's own speculations he has presented both here and on Rumors.

However, it has sparked an idea in me about the possibility of this year's Icons.

In pre-Christian religions there is the concept of the Great Triple Goddess, sometimes seen as Hecate with Her Three faces: Maiden, Mother and Crone.

This archetype appears throughout many traditions and remains powerful in human consciousness. In dealing with this year's themes and possible Icons, I can't help but think about the figures from Greco-Roman Mythology, The Fates.

These three Goddesses are:

Clotho or Nona - who spins the thread of life and thus can be seen as an aspect of the Mother as she begins each person's life.

Lachesis or Decima - who determines the length of the thread and thus determines what happens during each person's life.

Atropos or Morta - who cuts the thread and thus can be seen as a Death Goddess.

These three are paralleled in Norse mythology by the Three Norns, also three Goddesses of Fate, and by the Three Weird Sisters of Shakespeare's Scottish Play. (Weird being an old English word for Fate, has only recently become a word meaning "strange")

These are not merely worshipped by Neo-Pagans or Wiccans today but also by the nearly 1 Billion practitioners of Hinduism who revere Durga, the Mother, Lakshmi Goddess of Fortune, and Kali, Death.

So it would be very interesting if the folks at Universal's A&D were to tap into this archetype in this year's event by presenting Three Female Icons!

Chance, Luck and Fate.

Chance who gives you the chance of life, Luck who determines the outcome of life, and Fate who ends life. Together these three would collectively personify the Three Fates and also Death itself.

Thus there would be no need for a fourth male version of Death.

This is just speculation from a Professor of Religion, but it would also mean that another idea I threw out there jokingly on April Fool's Day, that there could be a Three-In-One Icon, may actually come true after all!

Can't help but have this remind me of the Stephen King novel Insomnia where he creates characters based on The Three Fates. In his novel Clotho and Lachesis are both in charge of ending lives that served some sort of purpose whereas Atropos was beloning to the random and could end the lives of those who did not serve a purpose in this life. Made for good reading then and would love to see Uni's interpretation of this.

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Hi there! First time poster long time reader blah blah that stuff.

So I've read everything and I would like to add my two cents. I've noticed the burned hand has been constantly attributed to Cindy and I personally think a far more obvious interpretation would be fire from Hell itself. We saw last year that A&D atleast acknowledged the Underworld in Hades, so I think hell could easily be recognized aswell. Also I frequently see plays, film, and books that show the Devil as somewhat of a gambler, but I digress.

As far as houses having a connection, I think it's very plausible. I think to have them all connected to a casino would be hard, but if you take what a casino stands for and deconstruct it you have plenty of vague themes that can be incorporacted into a house (perfectly demonstrated with the rumored house names).

I especially love Dr. Jimmy's (huge megas fan btw) connection to the fates and would love to see it happen, though I think they would be less the icon and part of a house that encompasses the casino theme. Especially since we have Three Fates costumes from Hades (if I remeber correctly), I would be surprised if they didnt make an appearance.

So now that I've nitpicked little details I wanted to add to I just wanna say my thoughts on what I see the Icon as being. I think The House could maybe be like some sort of clan, where its members are Fate, Chance, Odds etc. wether they are the supernatural forces they take their names from or if they're just a bunch of lunatics who parade themselves as gods or whathave you. If they are the supernatural forces I think the Gambling your life away idea really sticks, where the psychopath thing is a bit more obvious, lose the gamble and they kill you for funsies.

Finally (sorry for the exceedingly long post) I think the prohibition theme could be used really well, as the backround of that series of laws was steeped in religious dogma. If you have all these people saying drink and gambling and so forth are all gateways to hell and then you have this casino that is a channel for hell itself then I think A&D could really work with that.

Also I think a character like The Dealer would be a great face for the general public.

Anyway...thats what I got out of it. Thanks if you read the whole thing lol(:

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There was another thing I forgot to address in my earlier posts. Legacy has stated that he believes LT will not happen this year, because nothing with LT has been updated yet.

But last year the first update for LT was on August 2.

I make no claims that I actually know anything, Jimmy. I just speculate based on what I hear and read (which I think is fairly obvious at this point). I hope I'm right about a lot of my suspicions, but I also hope I'm wrong about some of it as well. LT is something I hope I'm wrong about. I don't think it can't come back, I just don't think it will at this point (although I'm waiting for Wackee to show back up).

Now, back to spec.

The idea of the "Three Goddess of Fate" is good one, especially with the strong potential for multiple icons this year, holds a great deal of merit. However, with the heavy leaning towards "Gambling" this year I think we can rely more on gaming symbolism than mythological. I still feel that "Luck" and "Chance" are essentially the same thing, with very little connotation differentiating them (that probably stems from the whole English-major thing). Now, I know the "third card" theory is going around based on the teaser site image, but no game (to my knowledge) uses a three-card hand in that style. Especially not Blackjack/21. The only way that works is the third card is the "Bust, you lose" card, and to have third female we would need to use a second queen.

I'm not saying your theory is wrong. It definitely holds a great deal of merit. It would be an amazing house and could allow last year's Hades to be an expected clue to this year. However, to do it, especially with three women, would require going too far out of the theme Universal seems to be establishing right now.

I definitely think we are getting at least two icons this year... and I definitely think they will both be female. Universal literally tipped their hand in showing off Fate last year (yay, gaming puns) and I'm certain she will be representing Death ie, the Ace of Spades. The unlucky Queen of Spades is a bigger issue, because she looks like Chance but can easily represent Luck (which like I said before is essentially the same thing). I just don't see how a third can be brought in and still hold to the 21/Blackjack theme (unless the third is the actual Dealer, which would simply make my head explode).

:lol: There you go.

The Dealer who deals you life's cards = Clotho who spins the thread of life

Chance/Luck who determines your lot in life = Lachesis who determines the length of thread

Fate/Death who is the final destination of life = Atropos who cuts the thread

The neat thing about this is that the Dealer could be a male... which would be lovely play on the "Three Sisters."

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I just remembered something in regards to Cindy. During this years Attraction Ops Awards at USO two of the Horror Nights guys came out and were talking about HHN 21. They really didn't say anything in regards to this year's theme or what have you, but The Caretaker did come out on stage after about a third of the way through their spiel. Now I am wondering why The Caretaker came out versus Jack. I guess probably because The Caretaker's costume and makeup is easier, but why even have an icon come out at all when all they were doing was getting the people in Attractions excited for HHN 21 and how they are ushering in a completely new era.

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