Halloween Horror Nights 29 Speculation

[TheShape1031]

14 minutes ago, StupidStupidDan said:

Episode 6 is the best horror thing I saw last year. It's just brilliant, and you still have the biggest scare of the season coming a bit further down the road.

Okay good. Glad to hear there's a lot more to come. 

[killswitch22]

On 1/26/2019 at 10:51 AM, Drummanmatt said:

New Ifrit tweet:

 

 

The wolfman came out in 1941 if I remember correctly. You think they would be choosing from the year '41?

Edited January 28, 2019 by killswitch22

[zombieman]

2 hours ago, StupidStupidDan said:

Episode 6 is the best horror thing I saw last year. It's just brilliant, and you still have the biggest scare of the season coming a bit further down the road.

Episode 6 was truly amazing.  Even if you are not a fan of the show, it's wonderful to watch as it was presented as one continuous shot.  In reality it was not (the longest shot was 17 min), but it's simply captivating.  While Haunting of Hill House is not going to put you in a fetal position as was hyped, it tells a great story.  Absolutely worth watching.  And it would probably make a very good HHN house.

[Rikku]

I don't get this whole HHN is gonna become MNSSHP debate/question...I thought we kinda stomped it along with the gore vs no gore and Stranger Things discussion. Yes the Fox-Disney deal will make it tricky for HHN to acquire some properties I am sure but coming off of what many consider one of the best years ever of HHN why are we so concerned about a decline? Of course I don't want the same people who oversee Hollywood to ruin what Orlando has going for it but I feel that is a different argument. Unless we get anything concrete I feel HHN should continue to rise in popularity and as a premiere scary Halloween event. Universal has such a grasp on the young adult and party going group why ruin it trying to compete with Disney and what they do? I mean that is exactly why I go to Universal so much now on Orlando trips. I would be shocked if they tried to ruin a good thing especially if they are citing that HHN is a highlight of the year for them financially.  

[StupidStupidDan]

54 minutes ago, zombieman said:

Episode 6 was truly amazing.  Even if you are not a fan of the show, it's wonderful to watch as it was presented as one continuous shot.  In reality it was not (the longest shot was 17 min), but it's simply captivating.

Not the mention the amount of movement, not just of the camera, but of the actors as well. (Without getting spoilery) In and out of sets, different actors replacing the same characters, special effects timed just right. Simply amazing. They'll be teaching classes around it.

[zombieman]

1 hour ago, Rikku said:

I don't get this whole HHN is gonna become MNSSHP debate/question...I thought we kinda stomped it along with the gore vs no gore and Stranger Things discussion. Yes the Fox-Disney deal will make it tricky for HHN to acquire some properties I am sure but coming off of what many consider one of the best years ever of HHN why are we so concerned about a decline? Of course I don't want the same people who oversee Hollywood to ruin what Orlando has going for it but I feel that is a different argument. Unless we get anything concrete I feel HHN should continue to rise in popularity and as a premiere scary Halloween event. Universal has such a grasp on the young adult and party going group why ruin it trying to compete with Disney and what they do? I mean that is exactly why I go to Universal so much now on Orlando trips. I would be shocked if they tried to ruin a good thing especially if they are citing that HHN is a highlight of the year for them financially.  

 

I agree with your statement, but Creative doesn't run the show.  Management never sets out with a goal of ruining something (it's just something they are highly adept at doing).  I say this a as manager... The goal is to maximize the profits that the event has built.  Management forced synergy with Hollywood on Orlando.  In my mind that was a cost cutting technique.  I'm just hoping they don't force Orlando to do more with less.   Just being my pessimistic self. 

 

I think that the next gate will change HHN forever (in a good way).  HHN has become such a huge thing that they would be stupid to not architect a new park around such an event (or at least with it in mind).

[Legacy]

2 hours ago, zombieman said:

 

I agree with your statement, but Creative doesn't run the show.  Management never sets out with a goal of ruining something (it's just something they are highly adept at doing).  I say this a as manager... The goal is to maximize the profits that the event has built.  Management forced synergy with Hollywood on Orlando.  In my mind that was a cost cutting technique.  I'm just hoping they don't force Orlando to do more with less.   Just being my pessimistic self. 

 

I think that the next gate will change HHN forever (in a good way).  HHN has become such a huge thing that they would be stupid to not architect a new park around such an event (or at least with it in mind).

Creative has nothing to do with HHN. You're thinking Entertainment/Art and Design.

 

EDIT - And the new park is getting designed from the ground up with Diagon-level immersion. It's also not going to have six soundstages available. HHN will remain at the Studios.

[OhHaiInternet95]

6 hours ago, zombieman said:

 

I agree with your statement, but Creative doesn't run the show.  Management never sets out with a goal of ruining something (it's just something they are highly adept at doing).  I say this a as manager... The goal is to maximize the profits that the event has built.  Management forced synergy with Hollywood on Orlando.  In my mind that was a cost cutting technique.  I'm just hoping they don't force Orlando to do more with less.   Just being my pessimistic self. 

 

My optimistic, naive self (oh what the heck, I can be an angry cynical @$$hole myself) says that even people who were brought in by Stranger Things would be outraged.

 

Put it this way, if Orlando had always been like Hollywood, there wouldn't have been any outrage from the die-hards during 22. The reason there was such an outrage was because they hadn't constantly relied on IP synergy. So the fact that Orlando doesn't rely on black hallways like Hollywood does means that expectations even among non-diehards would be to a standard where there'd be a backlash from even the GP in case they put Orlando on Hollywood's budget.

Edited January 29, 2019 by OhHaiInternet95

[littlegreenghouls]

10 hours ago, zombieman said:

 

I agree with your statement, but Creative doesn't run the show.  Management never sets out with a goal of ruining something (it's just something they are highly adept at doing).  I say this a as manager... The goal is to maximize the profits that the event has built.  Management forced synergy with Hollywood on Orlando.  In my mind that was a cost cutting technique.  I'm just hoping they don't force Orlando to do more with less.   Just being my pessimistic self. 

 

I think that the next gate will change HHN forever (in a good way).  HHN has become such a huge thing that they would be stupid to not architect a new park around such an event (or at least with it in mind).

I think unless they are going to built up hotels around the new park side.. I think they would rather just have it at Studios. 
 Despite,  allowing more people to enjoy dry parks longer than closing at 5pm. 
 I think it would be smart if it's they had a plan to move it over to the new park.  

Lets be honest, ya acting like the tent houses are trash. why? 

[Tobias]

14 hours ago, zombieman said:

 

I agree with your statement, but Creative doesn't run the show.  Management never sets out with a goal of ruining something (it's just something they are highly adept at doing).  I say this a as manager... The goal is to maximize the profits that the event has built.  Management forced synergy with Hollywood on Orlando.  In my mind that was a cost cutting technique.  I'm just hoping they don't force Orlando to do more with less.   Just being my pessimistic self. 

 

I think that the next gate will change HHN forever (in a good way).  HHN has become such a huge thing that they would be stupid to not architect a new park around such an event (or at least with it in mind).

 

3 hours ago, littlegreenghouls said:

Lets be honest, ya acting like the tent houses are trash. why? 

 

Uh, littlegreenghouls? Who has been acting like the tent houses are trash, and what are they saying which makes you think that? What's being brought up more is Hollywood's overreliance of black walls which comes off as cost-cutting/cheap. Zombieman has been openly against the blackwallapalooza, but that's not a knock on tent houses themselves.

[zombieman]

5 hours ago, Tobias said:

Uh, littlegreenghouls? Who has been acting like the tent houses are trash, and what are they saying which makes you think that? What's being brought up more is Hollywood's overreliance of black walls which comes off as cost-cutting/cheap. Zombieman has been openly against the blackwallapalooza, but that's not a knock on tent houses themselves.

 

^

What he said.  I don't know where I came across as anti-tent; I certainly didn't intend to give that impression. Hollywood uses tent structures much more than Orlando, and some of the best Hollywood mazes have been in tents.  Everyone would prefer a soundstage over a tent, but that's not saying a tent is bad.  I wouldn't mind seeing the next gate host HHN with themed tent clusters around the perimeter.

 

The black walls and stupid black box strobe scare are the cancer.  I think Orlando people may not understand what I'm referring to by the "black box strobe" scare.  Orlando does it occasionally.  The giant clown face in Poltergeist is an example.  Am I calling that scare stupid?  No way!  Such a scare is used sparingly by Orlando, and it's super effective.  Imagine instead that the scare is used 4-8 times per house.  It consists of a black hallway with a black alcove at the end or along the way.  A scareactor hides behind a black sheet.  In front of the black sheet is a silver metal bar at waist height (the bar telegraphs the scare, but it's there because OSHA requires it for safety of the actor).  The actor triggers a strobe/sound effect and pops out of the sheet in front of your face.  That's the scare.  Dead Exposure did this "sort of thing" but it made sense in that house; that was the theme.  But even there the scare was so varied.  It never felt like the same thing twice.  Imagine the exact same scare 4-9 times per house regardless of the theme.   At the end of every house is at least three of these in rapid succession, each having a different monster that appeared in the house.  Every. Single. House. Stranger Things.  Poltergeist.  Purge.  Trick R Treat.  This is the new normal at Hollywood, and these scares cost nothing to replicate, which is why we have 35+ per year.  And it isn't just me.  I've read and seen so many videos by Orlando bloggers going to Hollywood for the first time in 2016-2018, excited because they've heard such good things.  They exit the first house and the first thing out of their mouth is "Did it seem to you like there was a lot of plain back hallways?".  By the end of the blog, they are straining to sound positive, but can't help but mention all of the black hallways and the same scare over and over.  Search for the Tim Tracker visit to Hollywood.  They are always as positive as can be when it comes to the parks, but they got real about Hollywood HHN.  It's very typical of what you will find.  Hollywood was simply not like that until recently.  It's taken a huge nosedive, and I'm sure it's "purely coincidental" that it started declining the same time Murdy began splitting time between CA and Ireland. 

 

The hallways and black box strobe are definitely cost cutters.  Murdy has claimed the black hallways are necessary because of the odd layouts of some venues.  Three reasons why that is BS.  The same venues were used for years without the black hallways.  Most of the floorplans are rectangular spaces; they don't need any such hallways.  Universal Monsters was in Parisian Courtyard last year, which has the worst floorplan to work with.  It has lots of stretches of narrow hallways.  Yet because it was Murdy's baby, he decorated every single hallway in that house and had only one black box strobe scare.  When it's his pet project, there is no cost cutting.

 

[themazethinker]

1 hour ago, zombieman said:

 

^

What he said.  I don't know where I came across as anti-tent; I certainly didn't intend to give that impression. Hollywood uses tent structures much more than Orlando, and some of the best Hollywood mazes have been in tents.  Everyone would prefer a soundstage over a tent, but that's not saying a tent is bad.  I wouldn't mind seeing the next gate host HHN with themed tent clusters around the perimeter.

 

The black walls and stupid black box strobe scare are the cancer.  I think Orlando people may not understand what I'm referring to by the "black box strobe" scare.  Orlando does it occasionally.  The giant clown face in Poltergeist is an example.  Am I calling that scare stupid?  No way!  Such a scare is used sparingly by Orlando, and it's super effective.  Imagine instead that the scare is used 4-8 times per house.  It consists of a black hallway with a black alcove at the end or along the way.  A scareactor hides behind a black sheet.  In front of the black sheet is a silver metal bar at waist height (the bar telegraphs the scare, but it's there because OSHA requires it for safety of the actor).  The actor triggers a strobe/sound effect and pops out of the sheet in front of your face.  That's the scare.  Dead Exposure did this "sort of thing" but it made sense in that house; that was the theme.  But even there the scare was so varied.  It never felt like the same thing twice.  Imagine the exact same scare 4-9 times per house regardless of the theme.   At the end of every house is at least three of these in rapid succession, each having a different monster that appeared in the house.  Every. Single. House. Stranger Things.  Poltergeist.  Purge.  Trick R Treat.  This is the new normal at Hollywood, and these scares cost nothing to replicate, which is why we have 35+ per year.  And it isn't just me.  I've read and seen so many videos by Orlando bloggers going to Hollywood for the first time in 2016-2018, excited because they've heard such good things.  They exit the first house and the first thing out of their mouth is "Did it seem to you like there was a lot of plain back hallways?".  By the end of the blog, they are straining to sound positive, but can't help but mention all of the black hallways and the same scare over and over.  Search for the Tim Tracker visit to Hollywood.  They are always as positive as can be when it comes to the parks, but they got real about Hollywood HHN.  It's very typical of what you will find.  Hollywood was simply not like that until recently.  It's taken a huge nosedive, and I'm sure it's "purely coincidental" that it started declining the same time Murdy began splitting time between CA and Ireland. 

 

The hallways and black box strobe are definitely cost cutters.  Murdy has claimed the black hallways are necessary because of the odd layouts of some venues.  Three reasons why that is BS.  The same venues were used for years without the black hallways.  Most of the floorplans are rectangular spaces; they don't need any such hallways.  Universal Monsters was in Parisian Courtyard last year, which has the worst floorplan to work with.  It has lots of stretches of narrow hallways.  Yet because it was Murdy's baby, he decorated every single hallway in that house and had only one black box strobe scare.  When it's his pet project, there is no cost cutting.

 

the main reason why there´s so many black walls is budget, but not the way you think. see, Murdy wants to do certain scenes for a maze, he puts it into the treatment, and they start building the layout of the room. then they realize, they don´t have the budget for the main effect. so what do they do? well they just paint the walls black, and add a box scare. remember, Murdy doesn't want to do just black walls, but sometimes he ¨overthinks¨ himself.

[zombieman]

3 hours ago, themazethinker said:

the main reason why there´s so many black walls is budget, but not the way you think. see, Murdy wants to do certain scenes for a maze, he puts it into the treatment, and they start building the layout of the room. then they realize, they don´t have the budget for the main effect. so what do they do? well they just paint the walls black, and add a box scare. remember, Murdy doesn't want to do just black walls, but sometimes he ¨overthinks¨ himself.

 

That makes sense, except...

Take the past 10 years at Hollywood HHN.  There was a definite turning point where the black hallways and box scares appeared - and it was 2015 (This is the End). 

Before 2015, you'd be hard pressed to find black hallways outside Parisian Courtyard.  And the Box scares were along the lines of the picture scares in La Llorona.

2016 had some more box scares in The Exorcist and AHS.  FvJ had both black hallways and box scares. 

Then came 2017 and 2018, where we saw the number of both explode.

2017/2018 also had an extra house (7 total, plus TWD attraction and Terror Tram).  Prior years had 6.  Maybe he was given the same budget in 2017 but had the requirement of an extra house.  And then the budget stayed the same in 2018. 

But if as you suppose, it was certain scenes Murdy wanted, I'm just not seeing what we got more of (scenewise) in 2017, and 2018 that was paid for by black hallways and box scares.

 

<Sorry for all the Hollywood talk in the Orlando section, but the Hollywood board is DEAD, and we don't have much else to talk about.  I'm hoping it's not too boring...>

 

I think the evidence for all the hallways and box scares points to budget cutting (or at least budget freezing).  And Hollywood is still selling out nights and has big crowds.  From management's viewpoint, adding more budget for better houses is not warranted - until people stop coming.  So if Hollywood maintained record crowds with a budget freeze, why couldn't Orlando?  By that I mean that from the perspective of management, maybe Orlando could add two more houses to handle crowds, but be given the extra budget for one house.  A&D can figure out the rest (right team, @Legacy? ).   To me, it feels like Orlando has a huge budget, because it's just so damn good.

 

Not suggesting this will happen, but concerned that it could, since evidence points to that having happened at Hollywood.

 

I don't know if you've been to Orlando's event, @themazethinker, but seeing first hand how Orlando is just getting so much better and better every year and how Hollywood is running in place (or backward) is just infuriating.  I remember the day when it was a coin flip as to which coast did an IP better.  No so anymore.

 

[littlegreenghouls]

On 1/28/2019 at 8:01 PM, Legacy said:

Creative has nothing to do with HHN. You're thinking Entertainment/Art and Design.

 

EDIT - And the new park is getting designed from the ground up with Diagon-level immersion. It's also not going to have six soundstages available. HHN will remain at the Studios.

 That thought is basically anti tent. 
 Just because we have 6 soundstages doesn't me that we have to use them? 

[mystiquephreeq]

34 minutes ago, littlegreenghouls said:

 That thought is basically anti tent. 
 Just because we have 6 soundstages doesn't me that we have to use them? 

Yes, that thought is anti-tent, but it’s not due to house quality. The tents offer very unique challenges that constrain what they can hold.

 

The sprung tents always start construction first. Why? Because they aren’t temperature controlled. Florida weather in the summer turns them into ovens. This creates health risks to the construction crew. 

 

The MiB tent doesn’t stay up year round. This “nonpermanent” nature adds cost. The cost of putting it up, then bringing it down. Electrical has to be run to it every year. And it suffers from the same lack of temperature control. 

 

They are, also, limited in the scope, size, and theming of the house due to their size, shape, and nature. There’s a reason why similar/same floor plans, layouts, and scares are used in the tent houses. 

 

Tent houses can be beautiful, but they aren’t as cost effective and creatively available as permanent, fixed structures. 

[littlegreenghouls]

21 minutes ago, mystiquephreeq said:

Yes, that thought is anti-tent, but it’s not due to house quality. The tents offer very unique challenges that constrain what they can hold.

 

The sprung tents always start construction first. Why? Because they aren’t temperature controlled. Florida weather in the summer turns them into ovens. This creates health risks to the construction crew. 

 

The MiB tent doesn’t stay up year round. This “nonpermanent” nature adds cost. The cost of putting it up, then bringing it down. Electrical has to be run to it every year. And it suffers from the same lack of temperature control. 

 

They are, also, limited in the scope, size, and theming of the house due to their size, shape, and nature. There’s a reason why similar/same floor plans, layouts, and scares are used in the tent houses. 

 

Tent houses can be beautiful, but they aren’t as cost effective and creatively available as permanent, fixed structures. 

 I think the real reason behind the tents starting construction early is the hurricane proof tents. 
Sure Soundstages are almost weather proof but it's not 100% same with tents. 
 For all but 2014 and 2015 and even 2016 they put IPs in  the tents. 
 After, 2017 they kind of removed the IPs from the tents; maybe ip voiced concerns ( stranger things was the 1st ip in Hollywood  in soundstage legit )  I don't know people under value the tents, especially Tent 2 Dead Expose 2, etc... isn't as a/c for the actors as Slaughter sinema. 
 

[mystiquephreeq]

3 hours ago, littlegreenghouls said:

 I think the real reason behind the tents starting construction early is the hurricane proof tents. 
Sure Soundstages are almost weather proof but it's not 100% same with tents. 
 For all but 2014 and 2015 and even 2016 they put IPs in  the tents. 
 After, 2017 they kind of removed the IPs from the tents; maybe ip voiced concerns ( stranger things was the 1st ip in Hollywood  in soundstage legit )  I don't know people under value the tents, especially Tent 2 Dead Expose 2, etc... isn't as a/c for the actors as Slaughter sinema. 
 

It was either Aiello or Tj who stated that the tents begin construction early due to summer temperatures. The two outdoor queues (Jaws and Disaster) were started earlier for the same reason. Hurricane season starts June 1st. Those 4 houses would usually start construction in June. 

 

The sprung tents have been in use since 06. They’ve held true IPs in 14, 15, and 16. 06, 07, and 09 held original takes on IPs (they didn’t follow the movies they were based on). 

 

MiB tent held an IP in 17 & 18. Both were mashups and not true to the movie takes on IPs. 

 

They’ve only done movie replica houses for 3 out of the 12 years. 

 

[Legacy]

6 hours ago, littlegreenghouls said:

 That thought is basically anti tent. 
 Just because we have 6 soundstages doesn't me that we have to use them? 

No, it's based on logistics and logic. The Studios has immediate guests access to climate-controlled facilities that allows for rigging, indoor-weather effects, and can hold up to 9 houses by themselves. They're easier to build in, build for, and operationally control. That's not an artistic argument.

 

To expect them to support HHN in the new park is to expect Creative (who has nothing to do with the event, remember) to design the park with enough intentionally empty or convertible space to support at least 10 houses. That's over an acre of "empty" space, plus an extra two acres for queue. When the whole purpose of the new park is enclosed, fully immersive lands akin to Diagon, providing that space is not going to be a priority when the Studios already has that space.

 

Do we "have" to the soundstages? No. We can use restaurants, extended queues, tents, and borrowed storage space. That's what the Islands years mostly were. But, using those spaces means they're not available to the new park itself. Universal, as a company, doesn't want a justification to use that space that way - they could justify it in the early 2000s because tourism was drastically down. As time went on and the parks rebounded, they shifted back to the Studios. Because that's where the space was.

 

If we want to argue artistic merit though, there are some effects that can only be done in the soundstages, especially "fliers." No other space has the height or rigging certification to support them. Weather effects can't be done in tents (height and drainage). So... Yeah. The event won't move.

[mystiquephreeq]

21 minutes ago, Legacy said:

No, it's based on logistics and logic. The Studios has immediate guests access to climate-controlled facilities that allows for rigging, indoor-weather effects, and can hold up to 9 houses by themselves. They're easier to build in, build for, and operationally control. That's not an artistic argument.

 

To expect them to support HHN in the new park is to expect Creative (who has nothing to do with the event, remember) to design the park with enough intentionally empty or convertible space to support at least 10 houses. That's over an acre of "empty" space, plus an extra two acres for queue. When the whole purpose of the new park is enclosed, fully immersive lands akin to Diagon, providing that space is not going to be a priority when the Studios already has that space.

 

Do we "have" to the soundstages? No. We can use restaurants, extended queues, tents, and borrowed storage space. That's what the Islands years mostly were. But, using those spaces means they're not available to the new park itself. Universal, as a company, doesn't want a justification to use that space that way - they could justify it in the early 2000s because tourism was drastically down. As time went on and the parks rebounded, they shifted back to the Studios. Because that's where the space was.

 

If we want to argue artistic merit though, there are some effects that can only be done in the soundstages, especially "fliers." No other space has the height or rigging certification to support them. Weather effects can't be done in tents (height and drainage). So... Yeah. The event won't move.

^What he said!

 

@Legacy, we are starting to agree more often...

[Legacy]

50 minutes ago, mystiquephreeq said:

^What he said!

 

@Legacy, we are starting to agree more often...

Age does weird things.

[mystiquephreeq]

22 minutes ago, Legacy said:

Age does weird things.

Did you just call me old?

 

Indeed age does weird things. 

[BoSoxFan1022]

Does anyone know when the update will come that Sunshine Frights talked about?

[PeoriaBJJ]

Man I would love for the lagoon show from 16 to come back....

[mystiquephreeq]

18 minutes ago, BoSoxFan1022 said:

Does anyone know when the update will come that Sunshine Frights talked about?

 

Already came and went. The update was:

 

They are selling HHN shirts in the MiB store. 

[BoSoxFan1022]

15 minutes ago, mystiquephreeq said:

 

Already came and went. The update was:

 

They are selling HHN shirts in the MiB store. 

Well that’s disappointing