Bloody Mary Trademarks & Copyrights

[mystiquephreeq]

Unless someone can explain to me how a person can claim a trademark that does not exist, I am going to have to insist that Mary will be making an appearance if is there is a reunion.

The trademark has never been registered and didn't even reach the half way point until March 2010.

Someone please explain to me if Uni seriously messed up this much. I never saw a copyright for Mary on Uni's site and the only person who claims she was paid is the person attempting to make money off of this.

[ShadowRyou]

Unless someone can explain to me how a person can claim a trademark that does not exist, I am going to have to insist that Mary will be making an appearance if is there is a reunion.

The trademark has never been registered and didn't even reach the half way point until March 2010.

Someone please explain to me if Uni seriously messed up this much. I never saw a copyright for Mary on Uni's site and the only person who claims she was paid is the person attempting to make money off of this.

To that note I just want to know who you could copyright a MYTH!?!? Thats like copyrighting the Toothfairy or Santa Claus

Edited April 13, 2010 by ShadowRyou

[Black Void]

I dont think they are claiming copyrights on the myth so much as the specific look and name of Mary Agana.

[mystiquephreeq]

I dont think they are claiming copyrights on the myth so much as the specific look and name of Mary Agana.

Actually it's neither the myth or the character Uni created. The trademark application is for the name Bloody Mary specifically being used at haunted house attractions. But it's only an application right now, not a registered trademark.

[ThreeCircles]

I'm not a copyright attorney or expert but I don't think it's possible to copyright such a general idea as "bloody mary" that resides in the public domain. Sure, a specific incarnation of that general idea but not the general idea itself. Anyone can make a movie about some pretty famous characters, including Peter Pan, Alice in Wonderland, Wizard of Oz, etc. They're all in the public domain. (That's not to say they can use already created images of those characters but certainly the idea and storyline.)

This article is interesting. There's a whole list of characters in the public domain near the end of the page.

[Dr. Raymond Holmes]

I think UO already got permission to use BM but Bobbi was asked to sign a NDA form... like maybe Midnight Syndicate did.

[ChelseaLA86]

Using an reference to football and being from right outside of New Orleans, this reminds me of when the NFL tried to trademark the slogan "Who Dat" and get in a shitstorm with the people of Louisiana because it was in the public domain and not something only used by the Saints. I think that this would go the same for Bloody Mary.

[HHN fan]

I think UO already got permission to use BM but Bobbi was asked to sign a NDA form... like maybe Midnight Syndicate did.

I don't think midnight syndicate had to sign a HDA as they gave USO the right to use their music as long as USO give them credit. I have spoken to them at Gen-Con about HHN and their music.

[Nocturas]

I don't think midnight syndicate had to sign a HDA as they gave USO the right to use their music as long as USO give them credit. I have spoken to them at Gen-Con about HHN and their music.

Midnight Syndicate is pretty lenient with small haunts using their music. Just register your haunt over at Legions of the Night, hang the poster you get from them during the event and ask separate permission to use their music on websites, etc. Not exactly sure if royalties are requested for larger haunts like Halloween Horror Nights since I never saw any Midnight Syndicate posters anywhere during the event.

But we are talking more then just using M.S. music at HHN for this upcoming year. Live performances (or single performance for the opening ceremonies) are rumored to be part of 2010. If so, this is where the Non-Disclosure Agreement comes into play to keep it secret.

And I know some people started sweating when they saw the name 'Nocturas' under the 'Bloody Mary Trademarks & Copyrights' topic on the previous page... don't worry I am NOT getting into that again, no way in freaking hell. lol

Edited April 28, 2010 by Nocturas

[Dr. Jimmy]

Bloody Mary will be back at HHN XX one way or another.

How do I know this? Well, even if she isn't brought back by Universal as an icon, Bloody Mary will still be back when I go to Finnegan's and order a cocktail!

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Bloody Mary.

[reilysclone]

I like the image of a belligerent Dr. Jimmy chanting "Blood Mary Bloody Mary Bloody Mary Bloody Mary..." and drunkenly pounding his fist against the bar to the annoyance of Finnegan's.

[Dr. Jimmy]

I like the image of a belligerent Dr. Jimmy chanting "Blood Mary Bloody Mary Bloody Mary Bloody Mary..." and drunkenly pounding his fist against the bar to the annoyance of Finnegan's.

Belligerent, moi? And I would only need to say it three times.

[Michele]

I really don't think that Universal can file any sort of trademark or copyright application for Bloody Mary in general or her use in haunted events. As others have mentioned, it is a public domain character that cannot be owned by anyone.

My guess is that Universal has filed a copyright application to protect its design of the Bloody Mary character as presented at HHN. That is to say, they will argue that they redesigned Bloody Mary in such a way that is a distinguishable variation over prior work. That will prevent other people from using their designs of Bloody Mary, which I know has done by other companies with other icons, Jack specifically.

This happens all the time. For example, anyone is free to use the Peter Pan character, but you are not free to use Disney's artwork (or design) of Peter Pan.

[Guest EmericBelasco]

I've had this discussion several times with my sources. How does one go about slapping a trademark on a character from folklore? Indeed, you may trademark your own particular version of a character, but you can't trademark the entire entity. At least, that's my opinion (and seemingly the opinion of many of us here). None of us are trademark lawyers, though, so none of us can definitively say "That's not how things work." We may have our own ideas about how copyright/trademark law may work (or should work), but none of us (who have spoken up so far) really "know."

Universal's own legal department has investigated this matter. I don't know what their findings were, but I trust that they know what they're doing in instances such as these. From what my sources have told me (and this is certainly not a 100% guarantee, but it's more than idle speculation) it would seem that Bloody Mary will NOT be making an appearance this year (or in any subsequent years, for that matter).

This bothers me (and seemingly many of us) to no end, but it would appear that it's just something we'll have to come to grips with. Bloody Mary is one of my favorite HHN icons, but it would appear that we've seen the last of her.

[Dr. Raymond Holmes]

I explain this on the vault, so I'll explain it here..

Bobbie copyrighted Bloody Mary for entertainment purposes; has anybody read her comics? I havent so she might have changed BM storyline a little bit. UO owns Dr. Mary Agana not Bloody Mary.. 2 different people. If BM does come back it wont be the first time an icon came back for a reunion... 06 we didnt have the Terra Queen and they own the character.

I wouldnt worry about it right now, hell this yr could be a reunion yr with a twist.. it wont be like Sweet 16. Just have faith with UO, hell the legal team and interactive marketing team havent even change the copyright date on the HHN site. They still might be doing paper work with Bobbi.

[Michele]

I guess I should have read Nocturas' post more carefully before I basically reposted exactly what he said. (;

Anyway, you don't have to be an attorney to know you can't copyright a public domain character. So, if we pretty much agree that Universal has copyrighted its version of Bloody Mary, how does that stop her from being used in the event this year? I don't see how the two go hand-in-hand.

[Hush]

Bloody Mary will be back at HHN XX one way or another.

How do I know this? Well, even if she isn't brought back by Universal as an icon, Bloody Mary will still be back when I go to Finnegan's and order a cocktail!

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Bloody Mary.

That's honestly the only Bloody Mary I would like to see this year... Great backstory, but I wasn't overly impressed with the character or the house for that matter. (Now if Jimmy will put on a black wig and drink a Bloody Mary with me, then that would make up for my disappointment...LOL)

If we're talking about copyrighting forklore, like Michele said you can't copyright a public domain character. That would be like someone trying to copyright the concept of bigfoot, the loch ness monster or the jersey devil. Universal has their own "Universalfied" version of Bloody Mary which they have copyrights for, so in turn, they would be able to utilize it.

[Dr. Jimmy]

That's honestly the only Bloody Mary I would like to see this year... Great backstory, but I wasn't overly impressed with the character or the house for that matter. (Now if Jimmy will put on a black wig and drink a Bloody Mary with me, then that would make up for my disappointment...LOL)

Only if you put a black wig on with me Lyn! We'd be so scary Universal would hire us on the spot to be next year's Icons!

[Hush]

Only if you put a black wig on with me Lyn! We'd be so scary Universal would hire us on the spot to be next year's Icons!

Jimmy,

I'm down with that! (I'll start searching for wigs online now...LOL)

Or we could get those rasta wigs and be Jamacian zombies, that would give us an excuse to drink rum drinks the whole night long...wait, use both the black and rasta wigs, Bloody Mary's AND rum drinks!

We could be the first drunk icons of the event...yah mon!

[keith hutchy]

That's honestly the only Bloody Mary I would like to see this year... Great backstory, but I wasn't overly impressed with the character or the house for that matter. (Now if Jimmy will put on a black wig and drink a Bloody Mary with me, then that would make up for my disappointment...LOL)

If we're talking about copyrighting forklore, like Michele said you can't copyright a public domain character. That would be like someone trying to copyright the concept of bigfoot, the loch ness monster or the jersey devil. Universal has their own "Universalfied" version of Bloody Mary which they have copyrights for, so in turn, they would be able to utilize it.

anything can be claimed as a trademark any word but when registerd you need to select what purposes for the trademark to be used effective like dr raymond said it will be registerd for entertainmet but the entertainment business is massave so you would need to register it for like live profomances and stuff this isnt the correct law or anything was just rules i had to follow when i done my record label

[Hush]

anything can be claimed as a trademark any word but when registerd you need to select what purposes for the trademark to be used effective like dr raymond said it will be registerd for entertainmet but the entertainment business is massave so you would need to register it for like live profomances and stuff this isnt the correct law or anything was just rules i had to follow when i done my record label

Wouldn't there be some kind of blanket copyright for the entertainment field then? A copyright that encompases everything such as namesake, likeness, use in live performances, use in television, print ads, merchandise etc? I don't know a thing about copyright law, but I would figure that since the entertainment field is so all consuming in regards to the types of media there are, there would be some kind of law to cover it all. Eh, who knows! LOL

In any case, like I said before, it doesn't hurt my feelings if Bloody Mary doesn't return to HHN in any form. Out of all the icons thus far, she has been my least favorite.

[mystiquephreeq]

Because I'm OCD and I feel the need to entertain the masses.

Ms. Weiner claims Universal paid her for licensing in 08. If Uni did, it was a grand mistake upon Uni's part.

From uspto.gov

2010-01-29 - Approved for Pub - Principal Register (Initial exam)

2010-01-29 - LIE Checked Susp - To Atty For Action

2009-07-29 - Report Completed Suspension Check Case Still Suspended

2009-01-29 - Report Completed Suspension Check Case Still Suspended

2009-01-29 - Assigned To LIE

2008-07-29 - Notification Of Letter Of Suspension E-Mailed

2008-07-29 - Letter of suspension e-mailed

2008-07-29 - Suspension Letter Written

Here is the link to the page I qouted from http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=77450225 It's the status record of the trademark application.

http://tmportal.uspto.gov/external/PA_1_0_LT/OpenServletWindow?serialNumber=77450225&scanDate=2008072956824&DocDesc=Suspension+Letter&docType=SUL&currentPage=1&rowNum=4&rowCount=7&formattedDate=29-Jul-2008

That is the link to the suspension notice.

As of July 29, 08 until January 29, 2010 of this year the application for the trademark was suspeneded.

[keith hutchy]

theres a diffrence between copyright laws and trademarks there too similar im not a lawyer and its hard to explain you can copyright a product that is physical and you trademark an idea sorta but you can also copyright ideas if that makes sence??

[Michele]

None of this was making any sense at all, so I did a little digging, and this is what I came up with.

Apparently, this makeup artist/haunt industry insider, Bobbie Weiner, has trademarked the name Bloody Mary. So basically, any else in the makeup/haunt industry cannot use the name Bloody Mary in their products because of brand confusion.

This lady has licensed her name and products out to the various theme parks through the years to let them do a Bloody Mary attraction. In 2008, Universal did pay her to use the name and also sold some of her products. It wasn't a "grand mistake" or a mistake of any sorts because they HAD to pay her, or they would have been/could have been sued for using her trademarked name in an industry that she is known in.

So, unless Uni plans to pay her again, which I'm guessing they will not, no Bloody Mary this year.

I couldn't care less.

[Hush]

None of this was making any sense at all, so I did a little digging, and this is what I came up with.

Apparently, this makeup artist/haunt industry insider, Bobbie Weiner, has trademarked the name Bloody Mary. So basically, any else in the makeup/haunt industry cannot use the name Bloody Mary in their products because of brand confusion.

This lady has licensed her name and products out to the various theme parks through the years to let them do a Bloody Mary attraction. In 2008, Universal did pay her to use the name and also sold some of her products. It wasn't a "grand mistake" or a mistake of any sorts because they HAD to pay her, or they would have been/could have been sued for using her trademarked name in an industry that she is known in.

So, unless Uni plans to pay her again, which I'm guessing they will not, no Bloody Mary this year.

I couldn't care less.

Thanks for the clarification Michele...makes more sense now!

But like you, in all truthfulness, I couldn't care less either!!! LOL