Halloween Horror Nights 25 Wishful Thinking

[JDW]

How would you change things?

Do you think HHN teasing information themselves earlier would help?

First off: There are what? 5-10 people who are privy to inside information in February/March? Why the hell can they keep people from blabbing? When everything is know in April something is very very wrong.

Second: People want an '08 year. A slow build of story. I fully believe it will never happen for many reasons. One of the main reasons though is that it will be leaked 6 months in advance anyway so what would be the point? Everything they have attempted in the past few years has been completely behind the fans and fallen flat.

So it becomes a catch 22.

A&D is forced to try and live up to the unreasonable fan base's expectations rather than just be creative and do what they can with what they have. In reality we will never see an '08 year again. The event is forever changed and the fan base has changed.

I know the clue givers are trying to entertain and I applaud them for it. But at the same time the fans have become experts at solving problems. You can't give a clue that will be hard to decipher. Look at the P. T. demo. They predicted it would take months to solve... people solved it in hours. (R.I.P Silent Hills BTW ) The same applies to HHN fandom. They are obsessive, numerous, and good at figuring things out. Clues are not good unless you just want people to figure them out.

I can't say I'm innocent in all of it. Whether consciously or subconsciously I have leaked info I was given. Mainly because I suddenly become interested in a topic and very smart people pick up on that. Hell everything I say on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr is considered a clue by some people. Other times when it has leaked I have given either confirmation or alerted Nightmares to it. Mainly because this is my home turf and I hate when it is ill-informed about things leaked.

I would love to go back to Zero info. Zero leaks. Let the event develop naturally. Allow A&D to be creative rather than have to live up to increasingly higher demands. Would it make this place a ghost town for a lot longer. I'm sure it would. But I think the event would benefit immensely from it.

How can we get a paradigm shift? I dunno. I'm working on it. Lots of thought going into what I can do. I'm not sure if there IS anything I can do but I don't have to be a part of it.

[foREVer56]

The map says, "The Embracadero South Street".

Why do you think it would be 1 of the worst spots?

I was basing this on slightly older maps than the past year or 2, and it says south street is only that VERY narrow road between the lagoon and Transformers. If it's longer than that and along one of those other side streets, then I'm all for it.

In regards to the leaked info etc., I agree something's gotta change. This speculation season is basically already over and it wasn't even fun. I haven't had fun speculating since 2012. The past few years have not only been predictable IP wise (for the most part), but the info has basically been handed to us through easy enough clues and flat out leaks. I miss discussing the possibilities of the originals with literally no info given to us. When we had to wait for teasers to get any info at all. Sure, it's nice to know, but where's the build up?

Legacy or JDW, do you guys believe the "false info" claim? Do you think any of what you know, or all of it even, was fed to you as false info just so there was no leaks?

i honestly would LOVE that. I want most of what's supposed to happen, but if it was all a scam to prevent any actual leaks, then bravo.

[Dr. Jimmy]

Tease info throughout the year to build up more anticipation. Get the gp to speculate along with the diehards to what is coming. It would help to have a regularly updated year round website giving us back stories to appeal to everyone. Get everyone excited again for the event.

Hear hear!

[JDW]

Legacy or JDW, do you guys believe the "false info" claim? Do you think any of what you know, or all of it even, was fed to you as false info just so there was no leaks?

i honestly would LOVE that. I want most of what's supposed to happen, but if it was all a scam to prevent any actual leaks, then bravo.

I honestly think no. I saw no major discrepancies in any info I was given. If it's true, then I hope they they stop it (I know how hypocritical that sounds being always plugged in.) If all of it was a complete Gaff... Amazing. Bravo. I would be happy. not because I don't like what has been presented (mostly) but because they finally figured out how to stop the perpetuating nightmare that the leaks have become.

[foREVer56]

That's how I feel. Alice, Insidious, FvJ, and Blizzard all sound amazing, but if none of it was true just so they can mask what's REALLY coming I'd be amazed. Blizzard sounded...interesting to me from the beginning. Same with RUN3 and bringing back AWiL so soon so similarly. They're believable, but seem like such odd choices.

[criticalanalysis]

Leaks create hype unless the leaks are of terrible ideas, then it'll fall flat anyway.

FYI - HHNRumors said construction permits are filed...waiting to see them.

Edited April 28, 2015 by criticalanalysis

[foREVer56]

Leaks create hype unless the leaks are of terrible ideas, then it'll fall flat anyway.

FYI - HHNRumors said construction permits are filed...waiting to see them.

mystiquephreeq found the notice of commencement permit. It's in the speculation thread

[Legacy]

Legacy or JDW, do you guys believe the "false info" claim? Do you think any of what you know, or all of it even, was fed to you as false info just so there was no leaks?.

I want to see them pull it off. It would be more impressive than any backstory they could develop. That said, I think it's easier to address a leak by saying it's not true than saying it is.

I've had two sources that historical have not shared a common link (to my knowledge) provide me the same information. That information is matching Cassi's info which, to my knowledge, is connected to neither of them. I think the list is accurate.

Furthermore, I don't think A&D is that wrapped up in the secrecy of the event. Management, maybe, but not A&D. They're just trying to make the best event they can, regardless of the whining.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Legacy

[Dead Inside]

So if the list is fake and only some of it is true, I think TWD, Insidious, and the Icon house will happen regardless. Body Collectors in Shadybrook sounds possible. AWIL probably won't happen. Run would require Disaster, and if it closes it won't happen. Even then, I don't know if they'd bring it. The other 3 could go either way.

[Dr. Jimmy]

Once upon a time, before there were Internet fan forums, if you really wanted to find out stuff about HHN you could simply ask just about any Team Member you knew and get information.

There wasn't a lot of security about the events beforehand, indeed the promotional artwork including themes, icons etc, was published in newspaper ads for scareactor auditions every summer!

Things began to change after the big changes that occurred in 2001 and 2002. What had been released whether officially or unofficially about those events was not what was seen when they began. It was then that they tried to "keep a lid" on things.

In 2004 they gave some of the wonderfully creative people at A&D a budget to create a website that would tease the event, an interactive site through which bits and pieces of ever more exciting information could be slowly released over time. It was a huge hit with the growing Internet fan base.

These artful web sites became the way we received advance notice in an official and approved way. In those days we came to the forums, not to hear leaks, but to speculate wildly on the newest thing that had become "clickable". In those days it was common to hear the phrase "has there been a site update?"

Of course leaks still happened even then. One of the most notorious was in 2008 when Chad discovered that you could pull the permits and simply read all the info about the houses months in advance. This led first to code words, and then to generic permits that gave no titles whatsoever.

Even in those days there were a few lucky people who got some leaked information. But they wisely kept most of this to themselves, and rarely hinted in any way that could result in spoiling the whole thing to everybody.

A major change happened in 2010. it was decided by higher ups that the web sites should no longer be designed to cater primarily to the admittedly small hardcore Internet fan base, but rather should be useful to any person in the general public with direct info about things like ticket prices, dates, etc. The teasing on the sites changed entirely.

So then a certain person took it upon themselves to "fill this void" so to speak. Calling him or herself "Emeric Belasco", this person began giving us the teasing clues about HHN XX that we could no longer get from the site. We appreciated and enjoyed this at that time.

The next year, Belasco realized some of what we are realizing now, and decided to continue in a more secret and removed way that would tease over time without too much spoilage too soon. So seven persons were selected by "Our Mutual Friend" to get cryptic poems teasing the houses over a longer period of time by Twitter. This worked fairly well in 2011.

But the one who shared this with us realized that even that was too problematic and stopped this in 2012.

At that time I myself thought I could take this upon myself. I began that year posting Cryptic Statements in a YouTube video. These were indeed solved much faster than I had hoped. Partially I think, because leaks had already happened and some could "match up" Comments I made with a list they already had.

I tried again in 2013, that year I simply gave one word Cryptic Comments following the code word idea Murdy himself uses. To try to keep too much from coming out too fast I did these weekly. But these too got solved all too quickly, and I think leaks had a lot to do with that as well.

Last year I tried to stay even more vague with my songs. This worked better, but again leaked lists allowed people to play match up. Even originals were deduced too fast. And part of that was also due to the fact that I was no longer alone. The Ifrit and Cassilda Carcosa came along and gave their own cryptic clues. This year Unknown at OI has also joined in the "cryptic" games.

And this year there have now been major leaks before I have even been able to finish all of my songs!

I am now seriously thinking of giving up the cryptic thing altogether. I will likely still make an April Fools video next year, which truthfully is just meant as a joke. In spite of coincidences where houses in my jokes have been somewhat accurate sometimes, I truthfully did NOT know about those when the jokes were made!

But I may not do any more Cryptic videos. Although I did enjoy singing for you very much.

But I do not think that this will solve the problems. Even if I don't sing any songs - will that keep Cassi or others from posting their clues?

I fear others will keep posting clues that will be far easier to figure out and of course somebody will all too soon simply post a leaked list again and again.

So I do agree with Jeramy that we need a real change, And Owen has said what many I know have also said. Indeed there are those "inside" who are saying that very same thing.

A year round site that continually updates official information, and thus builds anticipation of the event more and more leading up to the event. Something along the lines of sites used to promote upcoming film releases.

But I fear the higher ups will not approve this, but hope somehow eventually the reason, benefit and practicality of such a plan may become obvious to even them.

[JDW]

Furthermore, I don't think A&D is that wrapped up in the secrecy of the event. Management, maybe, but not A&D. They're just trying to make the best event they can, regardless of the whining.

Oh I think they care and get frustrated.

I also disagree (to a degree) with the leaked info. Yeah if everyone is on board with the idea it will hype. But there there is no buildup no context. It's the most unflattering way to release info. But I get it we won't get the buildup because of the leaks and the leaks are there because of the lack of buildup. IPs are fairly straightforward. Still I've been in houses for IPs I was surprised I liked. Original content is even harder to convey in: "Psst hey BC vs PS"

Then you have to listen to everyone whine about the houses and streets for 5 months because they can't picture how they could work. Then the other people jump in to defend it. Wash rinse repeat.

[JDW]

Doc very well said.

I think Cassi may have realized the same thing. She seems to have disappeared again. Both accounts are gone.

[SirOwenDisney]

I agree with Jeramy & Doc both. Its always more fun to speculate why you are arriving at the solution than the solution itself. Perhaps Cassi has stepped aside & we may not see her return. Who knows what will happen next, perhaps we need some Legendary guidance to steer us to the right Paige.

Edited April 28, 2015 by SirOwenDisney

[Guest]

I dont know if I'm in the minority but I never would have found out about HHN if not for the websites. Back when I lived in Virginia the Busch Gardens over there started getting into teasing their event and one of the forum members on the local website bgwfans.com told us to check out the cool website for an Orlando event and thats when I found the Mirror and all its glory... My brother followed along the year before apparently after hearing about the big 3 but if not for that amazing website and then the awesome Universal Palace Theatre I would never have heard of HHN let alone become a die hard fan! It just saddens me that someone somewhere high up in Universal cant see that... They cant see what this event means to us...

[ThNdIzNiR]

Then you have to listen to everyone whine about the houses and streets for 5 months because they can't picture how they could work. Then the other people jump in to defend it. Wash rinse repeat.

Geez... I enjoy hearing people "whine". If people kept their opinions to themselves what fun would that be?

Oh sweet Jesus! Please don't quit. Your performances have been so enjoyable as well beneficial while passing away the months before HHN. Although my wife isn't a fan of your singing the past couple years, I get a good laugh when she say yells at me for having the videos on too loud. Without you, there would be a very large portion of what we discuss every year missing. Don't let a few loose cannons ruin all the fun for the rest of us. I mean seriously... You can't expect a billion dollar company like Universal to actually spend some money to come up with a marketing plan for HHN's hardcore fans. That would cut into their profits! We can't have that.

[mystiquephreeq]

mystiquephreeq found the notice of commencement permit. It's in the speculation thread

It may be the master permit, but it's not the notice of commencement. The Notice of Commencement (I usually abbreviate it as NOC) is a document filed with Orange County and will display different information. Last year there were three or four NOCs filed due to the differing construction services used. I'm actually waiting for a NOC to be filed to see if Fake is building for HHN this year, since they didn't build the houses last year.

I'm not entirely sure if this is a blanket master permit, or if further information will be added to it at a later date. There was that whole mystery permit debacle last year. They finally updated the one permit from last year with a location. I believe you gave the heads up about the update.

[Averixx De Avalon]

I saw a fake productions person in thw park during my shift on saturday.

[Dr. Jimmy]

When I was a small boy, a very very long time ago, in the weeks leading up to Christmas some of the other children I knew would sometimes sneak into their parents bedrooms and look into the closet to spy out what presents might be hidden there.

Those children knew in advance what they would get, and I always felt sorry for them. I myself felt that more than half the fun was the delicious anticipation and dreadful suspense leading up to Christmas morning when I could enjoy the wonderful surprise of opening my presents.

A bit later than that, but still an awful long time ago, on April 12, 1980 Del Rey published a paperback novelization of the film The Empire Strikes Back. I did buy this book when it was first published, but I left it unopened and unread on my book shelf as the film itself would not be released until May 21 of that year.

At that time I was a junior in high school and a classmate of mine, Jason Ng, I think his name was, had also purchased this book and had read it right away. He was very excited and kept bugging me to let him tell me about it.

"No, No" I said "I don't want to know."

"oh please let me tell you just one thing" he said.

"No, please _ I'm waiting for the movie to come out!"

"Oh, just let me tell you one line. Just one quote of dialogue, that won't hurt too much, will it?"

"Um, ok, I guess just one line wouldn't spoil too much."

Then with perverse glee, Jason spoke in his best James Earl Jones imitation these terrible words to me...

"LUKE, I AM YOUR FATHER!"

The scream of agony I let out could probably be heard in distant Amazon villages amongst natives who had never been discovered by civilization.

Which all leads me to this: The more I think about it, as much fun as it has been to be "in the know' and to playfully plant clues and cryptic hints about HHN for the past few years, I have come to realize that I miss something very very much.

I miss speculating!

I really have not been able to speculate about HHN for many years now. I miss coming to the forums in breathless anticipation, I miss trying to guess myself what may be happening. I even miss guessing wrong! In fact often it was more fun to guess wrong! I want to be able to go back to those happier days on the Vault when the build up was so intense, I miss the suspense and surprise.

A wise man once said: "The suspense is terrible... I hope it will last!"

And so I have now taken even a greater step. I have contacted my sources and asked them to stop giving me any more "inside information". I'd rather not know until the official reveals are made. I want to return to the happiness of speculation and suspense and surprise.

I no longer want to know what's inside my Christmas presents before I open them on Christmas morning.

[JDW]

I couldn't agree more. I have as well

[ForeverEvil1]

Next year is going to be VERY interesting, if we are essentially having no more clue providers. Not that I'm complaining, because I do feel I would have been ten times more hyped for last year if I knew nothing, so I welcome this change.

[horror lover]

Wow.. such heavy stuff going through the HHN fan community this last week.. No matter, the event itself is what's important in the end

[PeoriaBJJ]

you guys are full of shit. NO WAY will you be able to resist that temptation!

[Dr. Jimmy]

I'm certainly going to try. But I do fear that leaks will still happen and others will be cryptic even if I don't.

Doesn't mean I have to believe what they're saying though.

[ThNdIzNiR]

Well... I can't blame anyone for doing what they think is right. But what will be the repercussions brought about by this choice? Without teaser clue tidbits, there isn't as much to discuss about. Take a look at how many more posts there are on the Orlando spec thread versus the Hollywood one. Furthermore, there more than likely will be others that will attempt to fill the void and pull people onto other websites. I like it here. I'm really hoping this doesn't happen.

[JDW]

you guys are full of shit. NO WAY will you be able to resist that temptation!

Well believe what you will.

I actually... hopefully... should be very preoccupied with other things next year... If all goes well.

But honestly it is kind of a let down to know everything. Have it handed to you on a silver platter. A little text file no frills no buildup... and then you can't tell anyone. It's like King Midas' barber all over again. I'll go dig a hole in the bank of the Pactolus river and whisper it there. I would like to be surprised again.