Popularity and greed ruining HHN (and other events)?

[foREVer56]

If TWD is in fact returning to Orlando, I'd be concerned that it's a repeat house - something Orlando has successfully avoided for so many years. HHN Hollywood is now an event you can visit every other year and not miss a thing. I truly hope HHN Orlando never becomes that. I know that Orlando has presented Psychoscareapy, Screamhouse, and Scary Tales multiple times. They don't repeat them year after year and they are presented as an entirely new chapter in the saga. They are also uniquely A&D, with no contractural rules to follow. That makes all the difference in the world.

I agree with basically everything you said in that post. But i highly doubt Orlando will ever do complete repeat houses (save the one time with SH in 02/03). TWD is supposedly not even going in the same location. Plus it will be based off the newer season. And it's the only IP to be returning since it brought in SO many people/revenue, but i really don't expect it to return AGAIN in 2014. I seriously hope not at least. 3 sequels spaced out over 5-10 years is one thing. 3 houses 3 years in a row is a little tiresome.

[WESKER69]

If TWD is in fact returning to Orlando, I'd be concerned that it's a repeat house - something Orlando has successfully avoided for so many years. HHN Hollywood is now an event you can visit every other year and not miss a thing. I truly hope HHN Orlando never becomes that. I know that Orlando has presented Psychoscareapy, Screamhouse, and Scary Tales multiple times. They don't repeat them year after year and they are presented as an entirely new chapter in the saga.

^it wasn't always like that... Orlando had no problem repeating the same house 1-2 years (or more) in a row back in the early 90s. Some of them only had a few changes to make it "different"...

Also Screamhouse: Revisited was infact a repeat in 2003 up until a certain point. Legacy could tell you where that was. But yea.. it was still more or less the same house as 2002.

[JDW]

Yeah DOT the first few yeas, People under the Stairs, Psychopath, etc. I think the point though is that USF evolved from that while Hollywood seemed to embrace it. I would hate to go back to seeing repeats. HOS does that and I absolutely hate it. I didn't go last year because of that and, until the majority of the houses I already saw cycle out... I wont go back.

[Legacy]

Also Screamhouse: Revisited was infact a repeat in 2003 up until a certain point. Legacy could tell you where that was. But yea.. it was still more or less the same house as 2002.

Nearly identical up until the kitchen, BUT it followed the same room order (minus the basement).

[WESKER69]

I would hate to go back to seeing repeats. HOS does that and I absolutely hate it. I didn't go last year because of that and, until the majority of the houses I already saw cycle out... I wont go back.

^yea but from what i've noticed the past few years that they're getting better about it. 2009 was really when the event changed for the better. While they do repeat things, i've noticed they're also getting better with presenting it in a different way. Their prison house was turned into a zombie house in 2011. 2011's Vampire Casino house was done as a "lights out" house for 2012. So they do seem to be making an effort.

HHN on the other hand... well, marketing & higher-ups are what is preventing HHN from evolving into what it should be by now.

[foREVer56]

2011's Vampire Casino house was done as a "lights out" house for 2012. So they do seem to be making an effort.

HHN on the other hand... well, marketing & higher-ups are what is preventing HHN from evolving into what it should be by now.

Wish i saw the house before they did that, as all the detail was covered up and it looked like it would be so much better in it's original form.

And if you look at it from another perspective, HHN has evolved and grown so much that it's become popular enough to use major IPs like TWD/SH/RE/NOES etc. HOS would probably never be able to get a hold on those rights. They're still houses you won't be able to see anywhere else.

[Legacy]

Well... Universal still isn't the first to get a lot of these high-profile franchises.

Sinister Point had Silent Hill in 2011 http://www.ign.com/articles/2009/09/23/silent-hill-haunted-maze-to-debut-at-sinister-pointe-in-orange-county-california

And Knott's had Evil Dead last year...

And Universal used NOES long before they ever actually had the rights... Well, Nightmare Man...

[WESKER69]

Well... Universal still isn't the first to get a lot of these high-profile franchises.

And Universal used NOES long before they ever actually had the rights... Well, Nightmare Man...

^Freddy, Jason, Michael Myers, Leatherface, Pinhead/Cenobytes etc... as Legacy said... all used a few times, just never "officially"... 2001's Nightmare Alley, All Night Die-In 1 & 2, etc... hell Michael Myers made a random appearance in the corridor of doors in 2005's Where Evil Hides...

many other haunts use the familiar characters, but like UNI... change the name or look.

Freddy & Jason were even in the first B&T show back in 1992... although Jason had a chainsaw instead of a machete

[zombieman]

Well... Universal still isn't the first to get a lot of these high-profile franchises.

And Knott's had Evil Dead last year...

While I understand what you are getting at, Knott's had Evil Dead in little more than name only.....as set dressing along a log ride. Little known fact - they also "had Carrie"...in a zombie maze. The house had always ended in the gym of a school, with dead and zombies strewn along the path. While the maze was still zombie themed, they simply hung a "prom night" banner, played music, and added a blood-covered Carrie in the room.

Knott's also used Freddy extensively (without permission) loooong ago in their Hanging show (their version of B&T). When presented with a Cease and Desist order, they made a change mid-run in the season. Same actor and same costume, but he was now a generic "psycho with facial burns wearing a striped sweater who haunts people's nightmares". Just don't call him Freddy.

What I'm getting at is that while other parks have high profile IP, HHN particularly follows "the letter of the law" - using the characters and environments only in ways you saw them on the screen. While it's cool in that it's like walking on the set, it's hardly scary when you know who and what is around the next corner. You know every trick that's in the bag, just not the order in which they will be presented. How boring.

Sticking Carrie in a zombie maze is about as lame as possibly imaginable, but you gotta give it to Knotts for having the guts to mix Carrie with zombies. Or Evil Dead with a water ride. Amazingly, Sony approved both.

If the A&D team of HHN was only able to use IP in new "unofficial" ways, I'd be a fan of IP... I don't mean seeing Robbie the Rabbit being devoured by Walkers (hmmm....) but seeing the characters in settings that could exist in that world but that we have not seen on the screen.

[Jakemeister]

Honestly, the best way to show a business you're not pleased anymore is to A. Quit using their service. B. Tell them you quit using their service. They read that sort of thing. Knowing the life of an HHN Forum Reader, I'm sure everyone will just complain heavily about the event all the way up until it opening and then it will be the best year everyone has ever seen just like last year, and the year before that. Until Nov. 1st when they start complaining again.

[zombieman]

Honestly, the best way to show a business you're not pleased anymore is to A. Quit using their service. B. Tell them you quit using their service. They read that sort of thing. Knowing the life of an HHN Forum Reader, I'm sure everyone will just complain heavily about the event all the way up until it opening and then it will be the best year everyone has ever seen just like last year, and the year before that. Until Nov. 1st when they start complaining again.

Then I guess I'm not a typical HNN Forum Reader, because I fill out exit surveys every night I'm there and don't hold back.

I let them know that the Rush of Fear pass with Express ticket option made me NOT visit competing events like HoS or Disney. The Events dept must have creamed their collective pants when they read that.

I let them know that the Arcane Insights tour I took was way overpriced and should have included food during the break and Express Pass privilege for houses (not just rides) at the end of the tour for that price. But that the facetime with TJ was awesome.

I let them know that Gothic and Dead End were the best houses in years and that the IP houses happened to generally suck. Had nothing to do with my general apathy for IP; just happened to be true.

I let them know that if the events on both coasts keep overlapping with the same houses, I will think twice about flying to Orlando and dropping $1000+ at HHN. I would just visit different local haunts.

I let them know that the roaming hordes did not work for me, because I kept seeing the same people over and over throughout the park, and that most of the time, they were photo ops.

I let them know that the Horror Unearthed game is a wonderful thing they are doing specifically for the hardcore fans, and that it is really appreciated.

Those surveys are the next best thing a person can do aside from not coming at all. After they filter the responses from drunks, they take the remaining ten surveys and collate the results and take them to heart.

I agree that when fanboys become starstruck once the gates open, it's an embarrassment for HNN.

[Jakemeister]

I think the failing of the community is a lot of them view themselves as too good to do a simple survey, or that they voice their opinion online so they don't have to do one. Terrible logic, do the surveys.

[dave]

I remember being mad when HHN was moving to IOA for the first time back in the day, lol. I was all "how can they theme it properly!" and "the streets are too narrow!" I still think it is way better at the studios, but I wouldn't lose my shit if they incorporate IOA again in the future.

But even earlier than that I remember one year thinking that HHN had gone mainstream because the park wasn't "moody" enough and there was dance music playing, lol.

Basically what I'm getting at is that there will always be something to complain about, but there is always enough fun to be had. The event changes over the years and you just have to enjoy it for what it is. I'm glad I've gone nearly every year since the beginning and was able to experience HHN when it was a smaller event, but I'm also glad that it became popular because it means that it will continue as long as it is profitable.

[JDW]

But even earlier than that I remember one year thinking that HHN had gone mainstream because the park wasn't "moody" enough and there was dance music playing, lol..

um... '97?

[dave]

I think it was right around then, yeah. lol

[Prometheus]

Jeramy & Zombieman in all the years I've been reading these forums, there aren't two individuals opinions who I think more highly of than the two of you. I just personally wanted to say thank you.

In my humble opinion, you guys are spot on in this discussion. Saying the event is what it is, deal with it; it makes money and on and on...

That type of thinking misses the point. You all are both extremely talented individuals, who I would venture to guess in general based on everything I've seen from you both over the years, see more than most when they look at things.

Leonardo da Vinci, Nikola Tesla, Archimedes, individuals like this didn't see things the way 99% of other people did, patricians and plebeians alike.

I know the majority will make references to being scared of change and point and mock and that's OK. They don't see what we see.

I will say outside of Zombieman, I've probably been to as many or more events around the country than just about anyone and I love HHN, especially Orlando. When I go to these events I spend signifigant amounts of money, I don't even want to think how much and I can't justify it if HHN Orlando loses what makes it special and becomes just another good event.

I'm not scared of change and I don't think the minority who see things as we do are either, we simply see the event for what it was and what it could be and no matter how you parse it, when it comes to an event like last year for various reasons, some justifiable, some not the event wasn't near what it could have been. The trajectory does not suggest last year was a simple blip on the radar.

Lastly I'll leave you with this, I'm not looking down my nose at anyone that is generally for people on the other side who love to make fun of those of us who are dissapointed in more and more of the things we are seeing. I can guarantee you this, for all the people who laugh and mock, if 'you gave the three of us the ability to drive the future of HHN, you'd understand. Unfortunately most don't see.

Thank you two gentleman for your sustained passion despite the fact that sometimes it seems all you get for it is a kick in the teeth.

This was not in any way to try and speak for the two individuals I mentioned, I simply respect and value them greatly as members of this community.

Thanks,

Prom

Edited June 3, 2013 by Prometheus

[ferox]

Leonardo da Vinci, Nikola Tesla, Archimedes, individuals like this didn't see things the way 99% of other people did, patricians and plebeians alike.

On the other hand, we're talking about a theme park attraction. No need to bring Archimedes into this, especially when you are talking about how you like HHN on such a deeper level than 99% of the great unwashed. Seriously.

[boogeyman13]

Jeramy & Zombieman in all the years I've been reading these forums, there aren't two individuals opinions who I think more highly of than the two of you. I just personally wanted to say thank you.

In my humble opinion, you guys are spot on in this discussion. Saying the event is what it is, deal with it; it makes money and on and on...

That type of thinking misses the point. You all are both extremely talented individuals, who I would venture to guess in general based on everything I've seen from you both over the years, see more than most when they look at things.

Leonardo da Vinci, Nikola Tesla, Archimedes, individuals like this didn't see things the way 99% of other people did, patricians and plebeians alike.

I know the majority will make references to being scared of change and point and mock and that's OK. They don't see what we see.

I will say outside of Zombieman, I've probably been to as many or more events around the country than just about anyone and I love HHN, especially Orlando. When I go to these events I spend signifigant amounts of money, I don't even want to think how much and I can't justify it if HHN Orlando loses what makes it special and becomes just another good event.

I'm not scared of change and I don't think the minority who see things as we do are either, we simply see the event for what it was and what it could be and no matter how you parse it, when it comes to an event like last year for various reasons, some justifiable, some not the event wasn't near what it could have been. The trajectory does not suggest last year was a simple blip on the radar.

Lastly I'll leave you with this, I'm not looking down my nose at anyone that is generally for people on the other side who love to make fun of those of us who are dissapointed in more and more of the things we are seeing. I can guarantee you this, for all the people who laugh and mock, if 'you gave the three of us the ability to drive the future of HHN, you'd understand. Unfortunately most don't see.

Thank you two gentleman for your sustained passion despite the fact that sometimes it seems all you get for it is a kick in the teeth.

This was not in any way to try and speak for the two individuals I mentioned, I simply respect and value them greatly as members of this community.

Thanks,

Prom

While I'm sure something was lost due to the medium (at least I hope that's the case), this came across as incredibly ego-centric, and simultaneously speaks down to and disregards a lot of people here. Just fyi.

No one here is pointing, mocking, or laughing at anyone else. We all have our own opinions on the event, and everyone's is just as valid. I may not agree with what someone says, but they have a right to say it. That being said, it seems like you're focusing on a small aspect of the event and ignoring that HHN is first and foremost a business strategy. The numbers from last year don't lie. They sold out on at least one occasion, and it was later on in the event's run. That means that there wasn't terrible word of mouth; and the event, or at least the IP houses featured in the event, were successful in bringing people in throughout the length of the event. As a business, you do what brings you the biggest ROI. And last year did that, plain and simple. Whether or not you agree with the changes that took place, or think that that change was in the right direction, change happened, and it was successful. So obviously the trajectory was the correct one for the business, despite your personal opinion on the matter. It's why we're seeing so many IP's again this year, and will continue to see as long as it's profitable.

If you really want to drive your change at the event, then as others have mentioned, simply don't go. Don't give them your "significant amounts of money." Give it to a competitor, which will allow them to do more and ultimately force Universal to change their game. Surveys are great, but the revenue stream is where it counts. And tell them you're doing it, as Jakemeister pointed out above. That's the best way to get their attention.

I believe it was Legacy who said he no longer attends the event because he doesn't like where it's gone? I 100% commend him for that decision, as it's putting the money where the mouth is, so to speak. Don't fool yourself, the event has ALWAYS been about the money. To assume otherwise is to ignore centuries of economics and free market capitalism. The event, bluntly put, is nothing but a business strategy to keep you in the park longer and to spend more money. That's it. What A&D does for us is amazing, but as they even pointed out at HE a couple weekends ago, it has a business goal and KPI's to drive. It's another form of viral marketing, just like all the crazy stuff they did for the last couple Nolan Batman flicks. Things like LT and HU are the future of marketing, not artistic expression. Are they fun? Absolutely. Does it give us something extra for our buck? Certainly. Is there passion in it? Obviously. But it still only has one ultimate primary driver, whether you'd like to admit it or not.

And I'm not saying you can't have complaints about aspects of the event. Obviously there are parts that won't appeal to everyone. But please don't come here and proclaim that it's a disappointment and you could do better, and then say that others that don't agree with you simply don't get it, and are somehow beneath you. That's just insulting and uncalled for.

So let me ask you, Prometheus. Knowing what's coming, and how disappointing last year was, are you planning on attending HHN 23?

[Dr. D]

They don't see what we see.

I've probably been to as many or more events around the country than just about anyone

I can guarantee you this, for all the people who laugh and mock, if 'you gave the three of us the ability to drive the future of HHN, you'd understand. Unfortunately most don't see.

Someones up on his high horse. Care to invade Poland next with all of your power, oh great leader?

[Coast]

Leonardo da Vinci, Nikola Tesla, Archimedes, individuals like this didn't see things the way 99% of other people did, patricians and plebeians alike.

That's because da Vinci's favorite ride was JAWS. The change didn't flow through him.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Coast

[Prometheus]

I know I'm in the minority and that's OK. I'm not going to get into a fracas. What I will say is this forum is superlative because of the people who frequent it. I simply wanted to say thank you to two individuals for bringing some salient points to the discussion. In doing so, I noted the difference between how the event is viewed in different circles.

I appreciate anyone who contributes to the many quality disucssions on these forums and who does so without unconstructive retorts that do nothing but seek to belittle an bemean someone else for having a point of view.

There are more names then I could possibly mention and if you are one of those people whose constructive contributions and knowledge contribute to this forum, thank you as well for making this such an excellent home for Horror Nights on the web.

[dave]

you're welcome

[dolphan77]

You didn't answer the question Prom. Are you attending this year's event? Yes or no you're highness.

[ferox]

You can have a point of view, that's great. Congratulations for having a point of view! Thing is, everyone here has a point of view. So if you say things in a forum, you are going to have people respond to you. That's how forums work. When you compare not liking HHN as much as you did in the past to having a vision like Leonardo da Vinci, Tesla, and Archimedes you are being silly and people are going to call you silly for doing it. If you act like a martyr because nobody gets HHN like you get it, that's silly. When you say that the plebeians just can't see what you see you can't expect anyone to read that and take it seriously.

If you are that sure of your ability to drive the future of HHN, do as many others have done and make your own haunt. If you really believe everything you've said so far, make your own haunt. It's been done by a lot of people all across the country, so I'm sure the Archimedes of haunted houses could do it pretty well.

Edit: You also clearly have no idea what the definition of "humble" is.

Edited June 4, 2013 by ferox

[Legacy]

You didn't answer the question Prom. Are you attending this year's event? Yes or no you're highness.

He doesn't have to answer. Especially not to anyone here.

I really feel like all the indignation is really misplaced.