Popularity and greed ruining HHN (and other events)?

[AsylumSB]

thanks for taking time to answer that : )

Don't worry about the few on these boards that will take things personally. The thing is that your posts were not directed at anyone in particular, but yet they responded as if you helped them put on their underoos, then gave them a super wedgie.

On topic, this was talked about on the Hollywood page a few years ago....and my assumption was that Orlando already had huge crowds due to being the premier Haunt in the country. But when i read that some posters had an issue with the wait and amount of people at the event, I was shocked to hear that out was partially due to the IP's. Since there appears to be a shift in Orlando's event, is it worth making a special trip to the east coast for HHN?

Edited May 27, 2013 by AsylumSB

[boogeyman13]

On topic, this was talked about on the Hollywood page a few years ago....and my assumption was that Orlando already had huge crowds due to being the premier Haunt in the country. But when i read that some posters had an issue with the wait and amount of people at the event, I was shocked to hear that out was partially due to the IP's. Since there appears to be a shift in Orlando's event, is it worth making a special trip to the east coast for HHN?

It depends on how they're executed this year. The IP's (read that as TWD) drew in massive crowds, but the IP houses themselves weren't really all that great. Not to say that they didn't still look amazing, just that the intensity and the scares weren't there. Something was missing from each of the big three.

[Troiandan]

In terms of whether to make a special trip to see both coasts' events, you would probably need to check with someone who has experienced both, possibly on multiple occasions. I did feel that the significant marketing of TWD had a huge impact on the crowd levels, though.

While I'm far from "HHN can do no wrong," I do tend to feel that, when it sucks, it's still pretty flippin' good. But that is how I choose what to do with my finances, which in turns creates the economic impact, however slight, that has been referenced in this thread. Since my focus has always tended to be on our performers - as long as the event continues to provide that level of interaction year after year, I'm there, regardless of how painful or difficult to deal with the financial implications.

However, when the safety of the performers is in jeopardy, or the actors are no longer in a position to work this gig strictly for the love of it - and face it, love don't keep the rain off your head at night - then that's my own breaking point. I have no issues with IP's per se; but when money goes to licensing and away from the people who actually do the hard work night after night, and the Intellectual Property holders put straightjackets on both creative's and performers' ability to bring us the best of what we love - that's when my knickers get in a bunch.

So should you make a special trip to see Orlando? While I would vote yes, it comes back to your own economics to make your decision. And asking these questions is a great way to gather the information you need to make that choice.

Now to go re-watch The Corporation, so I can get all ate up again about the tendency to bolster the bottom line to the detriment of quality and elimination of pride in company and product.

ETA: 700 posts? Holy merde.

[boogeyman13]

Now to go re-watch The Corporation, so I can get all ate up again about the tendency to bolster the bottom line to the detriment of quality and elimination of pride in company and product.

ETA: 700 posts? Holy merde.

HAHAHA Try doing an MBA program. You get to learn all about the "fun" things some unethical companies do in the search for the best margins. And as a marketer, we're probably some of the worst offenders.

[LV-426]

Don't worry about the few on these boards that will take things personally. The thing is that your posts were not directed at anyone in particular, but yet they responded as if you helped them put on their underoos, then gave them a super wedgie.

On topic, this was talked about on the Hollywood page a few years ago....and my assumption was that Orlando already had huge crowds due to being the premier Haunt in the country. But when i read that some posters had an issue with the wait and amount of people at the event, I was shocked to hear that out was partially due to the IP's. Since there appears to be a shift in Orlando's event, is it worth making a special trip to the east coast for HHN?

I don't know. If both events are sharing the same IPs, I don't know if it would be worth it or not. I guess it depends.

IF the houses were original here, then yeah totally.

[boogeyman13]

I don't know. If both events are sharing the same IPs, I don't know if it would be worth it or not. I guess it depends.

IF the houses were original here, then yeah totally.

Even if they are the same, it could still be cool to see the other park's take on them. Plus, Orlando has a different Bill & Ted, and different SZ's.

[Cinderelly115]

I don't know. If both events are sharing the same IPs, I don't know if it would be worth it or not. I guess it depends.

IF the houses were original here, then yeah totally.

From what I have seen in past years when both events have shared houses.. the houses have been completely different. For example "SAW" looked like a completely different house in Hollywood than it was in Orlando (based on youtube videos I saw) . So I think it would be worth it even IF the houses are the same.

[Pastor of Muppets]

Here's everyone.

[ferox]

"There's something wrong with the house! I mean...maze!"

[PeoriaBJJ]

Interesting stuff from everyone. Lots of good points.

With that said Im a fan of the original material more than the IP's. BUT I still love the IP's! TWD last year was meh, Silent Hill was borderline sucky, AC got one walk thru from me and I went 4 nights.

But it was still a blast! Im almost afraid that if I DON'T go I'll miss out on something special. So I'll go again this year, I'll have a blast, I'll make more memories! I mean its a Halloween event. Go and have fun. If you are in a position to go with the retarded prices they charge you are probably doing well enough in life to enjoy it.

I'm not above criticizing HHN. They have had a few flop houses in the years Ive been to since 2006. But even the bad houses are pretty cool to go through. okay maybe not AC....

[Troiandan]

I'm not above criticizing HHN. They have had a few flop houses in the years Ive been to since 2006. But even the bad houses are pretty cool to go through. okay maybe not AC....

<quietly drums fingers whilst desperately fighting back the urge to defend her beloved house...>

[PeoriaBJJ]

<quietly drums fingers whilst desperately fighting back the urge to defend her beloved house...>

Sorry... I just never got into AC's music or story or anything. I really didn't have a clue what was going on. A scareactor did give me a hell of a jump in there though!

Also the first comment on Yelp for HHN pertains to this thread perfectly!!!

http://www.yelp.com/biz/halloween-horror-nights-orlando-2

[Troiandan]

Sorry... I just never got into AC's music or story or anything. I really didn't have a clue what was going on. A scareactor did give me a hell of a jump in there though!

lol, no worries - thus the winkie face. I just usually feel obligated to stand up for the house after a dozen or so comments. No harm no foul!

[hunnylvr]

In 2011, we were fortunate enough to do HHN on both coasts. We had already made our trek to Orlando, and we happened to be in LA on the second to last weekend before Halloween. We had a free night, so we drove on over, got ourselves an Express Pass/VIP ticket (thank god), and explored all that the Hollywood version had to offer. That year was:

Alice Cooper - Welcome to My Nightmare - hated it

Rob Zombie's House of 1000 Corpses - I totally didn't get it.. it was just a lot of gross, gory stuff with not much of a point or story that I could discern

The Woflman - this had a bunch of unrelated rooms in it (i.e. Frankenstein's lab is one I can remember for sure), and so it seemed kind of all over the place. After seeing the Wolfman in Orlando during Ripped from the Silver Screen - there is simply no comparison. That was one of my fave houses of all time, so I was really disappointed after initially being thrilled to see it on the list.

Hostel which was another gross out, and I began to wonder if the Hollywood HHN was more for people who just like gore..

The Thing - This actually was kind of cool because it was completely different from what was done in Orlando. So, I actually LIKED it because it gave me something unexpected over what I'd already seen. Being a fan of the movie as it is a strong teenage memory for me, I was happy about this IP.

La Llorona - this was my favorite house. I'd never heard of it before, and I never saw anything like it. I didn't have any build up beforehand either as the decision to attend the event was last minute, so I had read nothing about it. I thought it had some really creepy, scary detail, and the story is horrifying.

The best part about Hollywood, for me, was the Terror Tram. I thought that was really immersive and amazing.

The Hollywood scare zones didn't leave enough of an impression on me that I could name any of them except the weird clowns with chainsaws at the front of the park.

Now, if I compare that line up to Orlando's houses like Winter's Night or Nightingales or Nevermore or The In Between, it doesn't even seem like a fair contest. Not to mention scarezones like Grown Evil and Canyon of Lost Souls (GE being one of my faves ever). Keep in mind, I don't live in Orlando, so I don't have some weird local loyalty to it. I just think it's a better event in FL. The irony is, we bought a house in California about 87 miles south of LA. We plan on moving in just a few years and we already discussed the air miles we will rack up to fly from Cali to Orlando for HHN every year.

So, in answer to the question: Is it worth it to make the trip to Orlando - I say, hell yes, it is. They really, really do a spectacular job even with limitations sometimes.. the overall event is always amazing to me.

[LV-426]

Interesting stuff from everyone. Lots of good points.

With that said Im a fan of the original material more than the IP's. BUT I still love the IP's! TWD last year was meh, Silent Hill was borderline sucky, AC got one walk thru from me and I went 4 nights.

But it was still a blast! Im almost afraid that if I DON'T go I'll miss out on something special. So I'll go again this year, I'll have a blast, I'll make more memories! I mean its a Halloween event. Go and have fun. If you are in a position to go with the retarded prices they charge you are probably doing well enough in life to enjoy it.

I'm not above criticizing HHN. They have had a few flop houses in the years Ive been to since 2006. But even the bad houses are pretty cool to go through. okay maybe not AC....

funny thing was, My first time in Alice Cooper I really hated it. (At the same time I liked Penn and Teller)

After more visits, I started hating the Penn/Teller house and realizing it wasn't that good, and I started liking the AC house more.

What made the Alice house for me was the actors and the music I guess. The house didn't really look that good and the costumes were not really that cool for me.

But the actors kept making that house better and better. (after a couple of times I never went back to the Penn and Teller house, but just started going to the Alice house more often)

(Same thing also happened in Havoc in 2010 pretty much. The sets were nothing special, neither was the costumes, but the people working that house were amazing)

Edited May 28, 2013 by LV-426

[AsylumSB]

So, in answer to the question: Is it worth it to make the trip to Orlando - I say, hell yes, it is. They really, really do a spectacular job even with limitations sometimes.. the overall event is always amazing to me.

Enticed by your statement and other previous comparisons by Creeper/Zombieman. Since 2009, HHN-H has held a consistent, high-level quality event. Its increasing popularity and crowds could have scared me away but I took a different route and decided to give Universal more of my money (VIP) in order to get more out of the event. In time, I am sure Orlando will take more. Ha!

[PeoriaBJJ]

funny thing was, My first time in Alice Cooper I really hated it. (At the same time I liked Penn and Teller)

After more visits, I started hating the Penn/Teller house and realizing it wasn't that good, and I started liking the AC house more.

What made the Alice house for me was the actors and the music I guess. The house didn't really look that good and the costumes were not really that cool for me.

But the actors kept making that house better and better. (after a couple of times I never went back to the Penn and Teller house, but just started going to the Alice house more often)

(Same thing also happened in Havoc in 2010 pretty much. The sets were nothing special, neither was the costumes, but the people working that house were amazing)

My wife and I did the behind the scenes tour last year. We got to go through Gothic, Dead End and Penn and Teller. I started to appreciate PT more after going through it and seeing all the little things that were there and the back story to all the stuff. You didnt get to pick what 3 houses you got to tour. I actually wanted to tour AC just so I knew what was going on. As I said before I knew pretty much NOTHING about AC and his music. Im sure I would have liked it more if I toured it for sure! Now the tours of Dead End adn Gothic were unbelievable. I took a thousand pictures!!!

[madmonk]

Most of the time, I am completely blown away by the makeup design and effects work on the actors at HHN.

This past year, I was most disappointed with TWD makeup. The majority of the actors did a great job, but I can't for the life of me figure out why Uni went with the mask selection that they used. The mask itself looked pretty cool, but it was unfinished. Having a full head/neck mask (that covered the neck/shoulders and tucked into the clothing) would have done wonders for the effect, and it's not that much more material to add when already creating the mask (I have experience as a fledgeling mask maker).

It was most noticeable in the streets so I'm not sure if the house actors had the same mask or not (I assume they would). Seeing a zombie who's hands and neck are a different skin tone then the mask they are wearing (and seeing the raised edges of the mask around the neck) instantly sends the entire costume into cheesy halloween store territory. For a park that prides itself on movie quality effects, those masks were far from camera ready in my opinion.

If Uni is going to continue to raise the price of admission, this is one area I would like to see addressed. Use the extra income on more makeup/effects artists and don't settle for anything that they wouldn't want to put on camera for one of their movies.

[foREVer56]

Help me remember.. Aren't most of the HOTY originals? Someone asked and now I am curious. Anyone remember the houses of the years as far back as you can go?

Only ones i know:

05-Body Collectors (original but based off a character of an outside source)

06-Screamhouse 3 (sequel)

07-NOES (IP)

08-Dead Exposure (original)

09-Dracula(IP)

10-HAVOC (original)

11-In-Between/Forsaken (originals)

12-Gothic (originals)

So only 2 IPs and one house based off an outside character in the past 8 years. So yes, original houses are more rewarded than IPs. But it's not because they're original. They just happened to be the better house that year. NOES, an IP, stands as the only house to truly scare me ever and is my all-time favorite. Originals tend to be more favored as they give A&D no restrictions, but IPs are not automatically bad because they're IPs. 07 and 09 were IP-heavy (5 IPs and 6 IPs, respectively) and are highly-regarded years.

Edited May 29, 2013 by foREVer56

[JDW]

Only ones i know:

05-Body Collectors (original but based off a character of an outside source)

06-Screamhouse 3 (sequel)

07-NOES (IP)

08-Dead Exposure (original)

09-Silver Screams(IPs)

10-HAVOC (original)

11-In-Between/Forsaken (originals)

12-Gothic (originals)

So only 2 IPs and one house based off an outside character in the past 8 years. So yes, original houses are more rewarded than IPs. But it's not because they're original. They just happened to be the better house that year. NOES, an IP, stands as the only house to truly scare me ever and is my all-time favorite. Originals tend to be more favored as they give A&D no restrictions, but IPs are not automatically bad because they're IPs. 07 and 09 were IP-heavy (5 IPs and 6 IPs, respectively) and are highly-regarded years.

thanks!... and pretty much exactly what I figured

[Legacy]

You also have to remember that the cast and a lot of logistics go into "House of the Year." It's also selected by the same people who created/directed the house, so the will naturally a favoritism towards the originals.

Honestly, HotY is a horrible measure of how well a house is received because it's all subjective.

[foREVer56]

You also have to remember that the cast and a lot of logistics go into "House of the Year." It's also selected by the same people who created/directed the house, so the will naturally a favoritism towards the originals.

Honestly, HotY is a horrible measure of how well a house is received because it's all subjective.

Very true. But they are normally the most well-received houses by us and the GP. Gothic was the highest rated house of last year it appeared, IB was one of the highest rated houses in years, HAVOC was given HoTY almost completely because of the casts (and because Catacombs was disqualified i think?), etc. While the creators do automatically have bias towards their favorite houses which are normally the creations they made from scratch, they do normally pick the houses most well received.

And on second thought, i think Dracula was actually HoTY in 09...

[Dr. Jimmy]

You also have to remember that the cast and a lot of logistics go into "House of the Year." It's also selected by the same people who created/directed the house, so the will naturally a favoritism towards the originals.

Honestly, HotY is a horrible measure of how well a house is received because it's all subjective.

hahahahaha.

Not to be evil or anything but this opinion may have to do with Havoc winning in 2010 instead of Catacombs.

Oh wait, I am evil.

But it is true that HoTy is really a cast award - given to the most energetic and outstanding performance. It's comparable to an award for Best Actor rather than one for Best Film.

[Legacy]

I'm glad a tent won in 2010. As long as it wasn't Hades.

And yeah... Cats and Combs were detrimental to the chase for HotY...

[zombieman]

Been going to both coasts since 2004. Been to every HHN Hollywood since 1992.

Is it worth a cross-country trip to see both HHN's?

When they don't share properties, I'd say hell yeah.

What made Orlando a must-see for west-coasters is that they have the most amazing original houses anywhere and they are different year after year.

Even when both events share IP (2007/2012) the have a completely different take on the houses. As an example TWD was presented in vastly different ways. The only commonality between them is that TWD sucked on both coasts.

I have never been a fan of IP. You could tell how the hands of the Orlando A&D team were handcuffed - restricted to presenting what we have all seen so many times before - and only in the ways we have seen it on the screen. No original use of characters, and no original habitats. Yeah - that's a fun time... The IP houses in my opinion are little more than Easter egg hunts. Look! There's the hacksaw that Merle used! CitW was my favorite horror movie of the last 10 years. I do not need or want to see it in a house. Not unless the contract lets A&D run with the characters we only briefly saw. Of course, that will be verboten.

I think it's no coincidence that the most beloved houses on each coast last year were the original concepts (Gothoc and La Llorona).

If TWD is in fact returning to Orlando, I'd be concerned that it's a repeat house - something Orlando has successfully avoided for so many years. HHN Hollywood is now an event you can visit every other year and not miss a thing. I truly hope HHN Orlando never becomes that. I know that Orlando has presented Psychoscareapy, Screamhouse, and Scary Tales multiple times. They don't repeat them year after year and they are presented as an entirely new chapter in the saga. They are also uniquely A&D, with no contractural rules to follow. That makes all the difference in the world.

When both coasts are IP heavy and share the same IPs, I'd say it is not worth a trip to see the other park. Gothic was hands down the best HHN house in the past 10 years, but wasn't worth a flight.

Of course, if you love knowing who and what is around the next corner, then IP is for you. By all means fly out and see the other coast. Enjoy the "Comcast Synergy" and pay twice for the same theme. They will love you for it.

I know I'm fighting a losing battle, so you don't need to bombard me with the "Universal IS movies" statement. When Orlando loses the ability to create a new icon because it puts the IP in the background, and when they can only create two original content houses because both coasts need to share IP and therefore use the same prosthetics and props to save money, a piece of what makes HHN Orlando great is lost.

Mark my words, if the Comcast Synergy mandate continues to shape HHN, the question will eventually come up in a boardroom: "Do we need two fully staffed A&D teams? Can't we save design time (and therefore money) by using the same room designs at both events, fitting them to each locale?" Do you want to guess the outcome of that meeting?

All this Debbie Downer stuff being said, I am hugely excited to hear that LT is coming back. If the event is IP heavy, my interest is piqued even more because my anti-IP complaints are based on having to live within contractural confines. This is going to be interesting.