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Popularity and greed ruining HHN (and other events)?


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So today was the day that Ultra Music Festival Miami was "selling" early bird tickets. I got on the computer ready as hell to buy one, and at 1 pm I hit the ticket button and guess what? Site crashed. Very few people seemed to have gotten tickets. So I waited. They said that more early bird tickets would go on sale at 4:30. I wait again. The time comes and I get into where I can purchase a ticket and guess what? It crashes. And then guess what? A minute passes by and the early bird tickets are sold out and advance tickets are now 270 dollars (not including the service and shipping fee). At that moment I say I'm not going anymore because I cant afford it, but I continue to watch what happens. Almost five minutes passes and, surprise, advanced tickets are now sold out and you can only buy general admission, which are now 400 dollars (not including service and shipping fees, with them it's more like 500 dollars!) which is a hundred dollars more than last years general admission tickets were... Talk about some shady stuff going on here, certainly sounds like bait advertising to me, but that's not what this is about.

Now, I know what you must be thinking... Who the hell cares about Ultra Music Festival? What does this have to do with HHN? Well, lets look at HHN. Ticket prices practically go up every year, and the event gets more crowded, putting a lot of people in the spot of having to buy express passes... And look at what we've got these past years? A shit ton of IP houses and very little originality. Lets look back at HHN's past. Everything prior to Sweet 16 was, in my opinion, a million times better than what we've gotten in terms of original content. The only year that I think comes semi close to those terms is Reflections of Fear... What happened to being original? Halloween Horror Nights was cool because it was original, because it was big and grand, and created new monsters and nightmares to encounter. Looking at the rumored house lineup this year, it literally breaks my heart. I almost think it's a joke because it's so sad. It's no longer about the fans, because lets face it we're the only ones who care about what the houses and themes are. It's no longer about what's awesome and original... It's about the money and how much tickets they sell.

How come when something gets popular, like HHN or Ultra for example, it has to go to shit and be about the money? How come it can't be popular and still stay true to what made it so great in the first place? Popularity and greed has pretty much ruined my favorite events. I use to be very active on these HHN forums, especially way back when the Vault was still around. Now I honestly couldn't care less, because I know the theme and houses aren't worth speculating and working myself up over anymore because I'll just be let down. I also use to go two nights, or even three in previous years. Now I only go once, because it's not worth seeing more than once anymore in my opinion. I'm not saying I don't have fun at HHN, because I do, and the same goes for Ultra (I went this year and had a blast). But common... What happened to these type of things being about the experience? They pretty much seem to not care what experience you have, as long as you spend your money on their tickets and merchandise. They know that the Walking Dead and Resident Evil will bring people in, so who cares about originality?

Sorry but I just had to share my thoughts. I can't be the only one here who's thought about this.

Edited by Goo
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Let me put my two cents in on this matter.

Universal has and always will be a business, like Coast has brought up. For better or for worse, Universal is going to make decisions that will bring in the most money. That's what they have done and will always do. They have discovered that using many IPs will draw the crowds and it works. Heck, one of the IPs (Cabin in the Woods) is what's drawing me to very likely fly down to Florida this year. With all of the IPs, at least they're doing some original concepts to help appeal to the more devoted fans like us.

My point is, IP, rehashed, or original (Especially my case since I live down in Hollywood), I still love Halloween Horror Nights. It's a quality event unlike any other. The movie quality sets, the intense scares, and awesome environments put me into another terrifying world where I can escape from everyday life. By being upset about the trivial things that the event is straying away towards, you are forgetting the true purpose of the event: to just have a good time and to enjoy the work the creative team can put together despite the restrictions they have.

In 2010 for Hollywood, I absolutely hated the line-up. It was all repeats and nothing original because they wanted to appeal entirely to the GP. Even though that was the worst year by far for me, I still had a great time with my friends and was able to escape. I am a die-hard fan of HHN. While there are there will always be some things I love more or hate more, I still go regardless because I have learned that I will always enjoy myself. In the meantime, the people who run the event are benefiting from my business while I'm having a good time.

Don't let trivial things you don't like ruin the event for you. Don't let its flaws drag you down and enjoy the event with an open mind.

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checked the Ultra festival, wow, terrible lineup lol.

As for things getting more expensive. That is just inevitable. The thing I hate is when they don't put as much effort as before while getting more money.

It happens often. A company or product will gain fans and will start to cut costs and raise prices. They will raise the prices but not put the quality that made them famous in the first place.

It happens with bands too. A band will get so famous that starts making albums just for money, But the new music will not be as good because they are only doing it to get more money.

Edited by LV-426
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Sure you can say its a business all you want.... But when push comes to shove, if you insult your fanbase... eventually you have no fans. We are the people who hype this event, buy all their crap, buy tickets as soon as they are avaliable. I know more than 50 people that if I say it's not worth going to... they wont go. Plain and simple. I've stopped buying merchandise because its cheap and unoriginal. Tick me off enough and I just wont go anymore. .

The very thing that made the event unique, as they always put it in there thousands of commentaries, was that it was original and inovative. But that truly changed in 2010. Sure I still like the event and have fun and the prices are still reasonable to go multiple nights. But as soon as either of those factors changes.. Its over. My 22 years of HHN going means nothing if they don't respect the people who care the most about the event.

Now A&D do a great job of showing us fans they care and their little clues and games leading to the event are the only real reason I even care to talk about it prior to the event. Otherwise, I'd just wait for the lame static website to pop up in august before I even started thinking about it. But it seems they don't matter to corporate. Money has replaced the art.

A good business cares about its most frequent patrons... Period. If you continue to dishoner them... sooner or later, maybe not right away, but eventually you will lose your money.

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one thing only. HHN did not just get popular recently.

For decades it was the big money maker that put Universal in the black each year. In more recent years Harry Potter has become the big money maker, and HHN is not as high a priority.

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I understand being disappointed that some of the things you love most about HHN may seem like it's disappearing (the originality being foremost here). I, too, love the original ideas most of all. While TWD was the huge draw last year, I think most of us have agreed that the house sucked. I think we also agree that the best houses were Gothic and Dead End (original ideas). Ironic? Yep. Typical business? Unfortunately, yes.

I understand Universal has to try and make the most money, but I also agree with JW here - if you piss off the hardcore fan base, eventually, your product will no longer be viable. It's that hardcore fan base who spreads the word, creates excitement, helps to populate the event/buy the product. If we all said, "Oh don't bother, it really sucks" and then went on to recommend something else - eventually, this would drain away more of the crowds than I thnk they realize.

I've been told many, many times that Universal should be paying ME. Why? Because I talk them up more than a mega-church preacher invokes Jesus. Keep in mind, I don't live in Florida. The people I speak with are not only visiting the park and buying multi-day tickets, they are also spending money on the over-priced hotels on-site, at the City Walk for dinner, at the new mini-golf, etc, etc. These are the kinds of "tourists" Universal wants - the most money they can get from a guest. I mean, for crying out loud, I work with a charity, and we got Universal to donate some passes for a Florida trip we put together as a raffle item in our fundraiser - but we also bought $500 worth of Universal gift cards to include in the package. There were one day passes to Disney as well. However, with $500 in gift cards to Universal along with the tickets - where do you think those winners were going to spend their time? That was INTENTIONAL., and I orchestrated that.

I'm not babbling about this to say I'm a bigger fan than anyone here - my point is - ALL of us "hardcore fans" do so much to promote Unviersal, and if we become dissatisfied with our experience, then we just might move on and take all that other business with us somewhere else.

This is not to say that I'm unhappy with HHN. I'm not. I still think it's the best event in the country. I've been to a lot of haunts, and nothing gives me the feeling, the scares, the fun, the fascination that Universal does. I've brought many different people to this event over the years, and they all still talk about it as one of the best Halloween memories they have. Can I wish and hope for those true gems of originality? Hell yes, I can. But I also know that overall, even with IP heavy events, they can pull it off. Please understand that my heart truly lies with the original stuff though, so I'm not knocking your feelings here. I'm right with you on that. But you can't let it ruin the whole event for you. Keep your mind open and remember the potential for greatness that is there every year because there is always something awesome. Always.

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As much as I would like to agree with everyone here, I just can't. The philosophy presented here that the wants and desires of the hardcore fans should be more important than the the GP is something you see in every fandom, and it's why Star Wars fans get so bent out of shape every time Lucas changes something to "their" trilogy. As fans, we have a personal investment in the brand, and feel a sense of ownership. But it's not the case. Ultimately it is still a business, and Universal, as a company, will do what makes the most amount of sense to grow their market share and please their shareholders.

Last year should have been an eye opener into just how much we as the hardcore fans impact revenue streams. If we were really that influential, then the event would have been selling out for years, not just when they got a hot IP for the event. It's why it looks like this year is going to be IP heavy again. Even if we as a group refused to go, there are what, a few hundred of us at most that would actually do that? It's the same groups of people posting here and over on HU, and that probably carries through to the other fan sites as well. HHN deals with thousands of visitors on a nightly basis. Visitors, btw, who will buy a 1-night pass, maybe upgrade to express, and then drop 60+ dollars on food and booze, and who knows how much on merch. And maybe they'll get a second night out of them, with the same amount of spending. And even better, if they can get them in the park during the day as well, then that's additional income. That's where the money is, and that's where the focus is.

I am very grateful that elements of the Universal team reach out to the fans at all, but I also understand that it's a small, dedicated group of individuals. Horror Unearthed was orchestrated by what, 5-6 people? And the majority of the GP (and even a lot of the employees) had no idea it was going on. I think it's fantastic that Universal allows the level of interaction that goes on leading up to and during HHN with programs like LT and HU, but it isn't how they generate the bulk of their profits. They're going to aim the event to whichever market segment offers them the most financial opportunities. We thought (myself included) that HHNH's business model would never work in Orlando, as it was a different market with different needs. But that belief is being proven wrong, and most likely will continue to do so.

Look, as a fan boy for a number of things, I understand the mentality of "we were there from the beginning, we love this brand, and it used to be about the fans and the art." But that's wrong. We got the HHN that made the most sense in that market climate, and we identified with it. Now we're seeing a new market climate, and a shift in the event to capitalize on it. To bring this back around, it's the exact same concept you see from OT Star Wars fans. They saw the Prequel Trilogy and bemoaned it, running around yelling about how it wasn't their Star Wars and how George sold out and raped their childhood. But to a whole generation of fans, that IS their Star Wars. They love it more than the Original Trilogy, and will be the future revenue generators. The same thing is happening here. We may run around yelling about how this isn't the HHN we love, and they've sold out. But I guarantee you there's a growing fan base who is perfectly fine with this new format, and would prefer it to what's come before. And they're younger, are the source of future revenue, and will eventually replace us.

I understand that this isn't a popular viewpoint, and my aim was not to offend. So if I did, I apologize. I'm a huge, huge fan of the holiday and season, and will defend the merits of HHN against any other haunt until the day I die. But, in my personal opinion, the sense of entitlement and betrayal that's popping up in this thread is misplaced. We are a vocal, but minor part of the larger community. This event has grown a lot larger than what it was, and in the larger context, we are ultimately not that vital to their success.

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Boogeyman - the intent of my post was not to imply that we are the majority funding of the event. I was trying to get across more of a middle ground.. that yes, we ARE important, but we also need to understand it is BUSINESS and to enjoy it for what it is: the best Halloween event anywhere.

I just needed to clarify because I'm not delusional enough to think I have the power to make or break the finances of HHN or Universal. :) Besides, I love them, and they pretty much have me for life.

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Boogeyman - the intent of my post was not to imply that we are the majority funding of the event. I was trying to get across more of a middle ground.. that yes, we ARE important, but we also need to understand it is BUSINESS and to enjoy it for what it is: the best Halloween event anywhere.

I just needed to clarify because I'm not delusional enough to think I have the power to make or break the finances of HHN or Universal. :) Besides, I love them, and they pretty much have me for life.

No worries, and I'm certainly not singling you or anyone else in this thread out. The mentality I'm speaking of, while popping up in this conversation a bit, transcends this thread. It's a viewpoint that shows up from time to time forum-wide, and even across different fandoms, as I mentioned.

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I wasn't going to say anything, but if we're really going to bitch about the price increase... or event popularity, don't blame the IP's because believe it or not, they've always been a part of HHN Orlando since Fright Nights in 1991. While IP's might not have been shoved down your throat until you choked on it like TWD was last year, they've still been present at the event in some form.

With the price increase.. which is getting a bit out of control (UNI just raised their regular ticket price this past saturday)... with the amount of money it costs to go, the thing you should be bitching about is how very little everyone's "oh so beloved" event offers. For an event this popular & its price, we should have so much that it DOES take more than one night to see it all.

Its pretty sad when you see an event like Knott's Scary Farm in Cali going on its 40th year last year and offer more for less. While they might repeat houses, scarezones or shows... at least they offer more to alleviate the crowds. Last year they had 12 houses, 2 haunted rides, 9 shows, & 4 scarezones for the price of roughly like $60

The fact that HHN has 3 stadium seating theaters in the park, along with a smaller indoor theater (HMU), a larger indoor theater (T23D), a mini stage (kidzone), and the lagoon... we should seriously be seeing entertainment in all venues. Including something in the street like Death Drums for example.

Then you've got the Rockit stage which of course doesnt get used because the viewing area is used for SS22 house queue. So that means one less stage that could be used.

we have 8 houses (again), but we should seriously be seeing AT LEAST 5 shows (one of those being in the lagoon), then at least 5 themed scarezones, along with random roaming scareactors/characters. The last time we even had a shit ton of entertainment to go along with 8 houses was in 2007- we had 4 shows. 2008 decreased to 3 shows, 2009/2010/2011 down to 2 shows, 2012 gave us 3 shows when you count the unlisted lagoon show.

This is pathetic for an event of HHN's size. The problem with them is that they like to make money, but refuse to spend it. Honestly, like i said, you should be bitching more about lack of content than "OMGZ THERE IZ SO MANY IPS!!!"... Universal can be a business all it wants, but its a bad business when they refuse to offer people more for their money to keep them happy.

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I wasn't going to say anything, but if we're really going to bitch about the price increase... or event popularity, don't blame the IP's because believe it or not, they've always been a part of HHN Orlando since Fright Nights in 1991. While IP's might not have been shoved down your throat until you choked on it like TWD was last year, they've still been present at the event in some form.

With the price increase.. which is getting a bit out of control (UNI just raised their regular ticket price this past saturday)... with the amount of money it costs to go, the thing you should be bitching about is how very little everyone's "oh so beloved" event offers. For an event this popular & its price, we should have so much that it DOES take more than one night to see it all.

Its pretty sad when you see an event like Knott's Scary Farm in Cali going on its 40th year last year and offer more for less. While they might repeat houses, scarezones or shows... at least they offer more to alleviate the crowds. Last year they had 12 houses, 2 haunted rides, 9 shows, & 4 scarezones for the price of roughly like $60

The fact that HHN has 3 stadium seating theaters in the park, along with a smaller indoor theater (HMU), a larger indoor theater (T23D), a mini stage (kidzone), and the lagoon... we should seriously be seeing entertainment in all venues. Including something in the street like Death Drums for example.

Then you've got the Rockit stage which of course doesnt get used because the viewing area is used for SS22 house queue. So that means one less stage that could be used.

we have 8 houses (again), but we should seriously be seeing AT LEAST 5 shows (one of those being in the lagoon), then at least 5 themed scarezones, along with random roaming scareactors/characters. The last time we even had a shit ton of entertainment to go along with 8 houses was in 2007- we had 4 shows. 2008 decreased to 3 shows, 2009/2010/2011 down to 2 shows, 2012 gave us 3 shows when you count the unlisted lagoon show.

This is pathetic for an event of HHN's size. The problem with them is that they like to make money, but refuse to spend it. Honestly, like i said, you should be bitching more about lack of content than "OMGZ THERE IZ SO MANY IPS!!!"... Universal can be a business all it wants, but its a bad business when they refuse to offer people more for their money to keep them happy.

While I don't disagree with your points, until people en masse stop coming, that won't really change. They know they can get away with less, and if people are still willing to pay, there's no need to change the model. Knott's isn't really a fair comparison, though, as they have a much more competitive market than Orlando. I'd be very curious to know how the GP feels about the product offerings as of late. This year's business will probably be pretty telling, although I'm honestly expecting a repeat of last year's numbers. Especially with Transformers now, assuming it's open.

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Especially with Transformers now, assuming it's open.

why wouldn't their newest ride be open? Its basically the JAWS ride replacement as far as whats open goes. Come on, they had Despicable Me open last year during HHN, which was the newest ride. Transformers will be open and the line will rival TWD's (or other houses for that matter)...

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why wouldn't their newest ride be open? Its basically the JAWS ride replacement as far as whats open goes. Come on, they had Despicable Me open last year during HHN, which was the newest ride. Transformers will be open and the line will rival TWD's (or other houses for that matter)...

I'm genuinely hoping it is, but you never know.

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oh trust me... i do know. Its a large ride addition for the park. Thats something they'll capitalize on, even though its not exactly high-capacity (compared to JAWS). This isn't like Rockit back in 2009 & 2010... The only reason Transformers would be closed is due to technical issues, however considering the event is 4 1/2 months away & the ride is the same system as Spiderman, i'd sure hope they had their technical glitches worked out by then.

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It might not be as high-capacity as JAWS, but it sure as hell will draw more people to the line, keeping more people out of the house lines (and streets for that matter).

If these rumors of RHS coming back turn out to be true, they could put that in BJ and B&T in FFL like normal, use the lagoon for some kind of show, and maybe a show in HMU. Hell i wouldn't care if it was even a magic show (which i don't care for either). Just SOME other show to offer more and to draw more people from the other lines. They could just use HMU i don't get why they wouldn't. I mean it IS a horror show after all.

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I wasn't going to say anything, but if we're really going to bitch about the price increase... or event popularity, don't blame the IP's because believe it or not, they've always been a part of HHN Orlando since Fright Nights in 1991. While IP's might not have been shoved down your throat until you choked on it like TWD was last year, they've still been present at the event in some form.

With the price increase.. which is getting a bit out of control (UNI just raised their regular ticket price this past saturday)... with the amount of money it costs to go, the thing you should be bitching about is how very little everyone's "oh so beloved" event offers. For an event this popular & its price, we should have so much that it DOES take more than one night to see it all.

Its pretty sad when you see an event like Knott's Scary Farm in Cali going on its 40th year last year and offer more for less. While they might repeat houses, scarezones or shows... at least they offer more to alleviate the crowds. Last year they had 12 houses, 2 haunted rides, 9 shows, & 4 scarezones for the price of roughly like $60

The fact that HHN has 3 stadium seating theaters in the park, along with a smaller indoor theater (HMU), a larger indoor theater (T23D), a mini stage (kidzone), and the lagoon... we should seriously be seeing entertainment in all venues. Including something in the street like Death Drums for example.

Then you've got the Rockit stage which of course doesnt get used because the viewing area is used for SS22 house queue. So that means one less stage that could be used.

we have 8 houses (again), but we should seriously be seeing AT LEAST 5 shows (one of those being in the lagoon), then at least 5 themed scarezones, along with random roaming scareactors/characters. The last time we even had a shit ton of entertainment to go along with 8 houses was in 2007- we had 4 shows. 2008 decreased to 3 shows, 2009/2010/2011 down to 2 shows, 2012 gave us 3 shows when you count the unlisted lagoon show.

This is pathetic for an event of HHN's size. The problem with them is that they like to make money, but refuse to spend it. Honestly, like i said, you should be bitching more about lack of content than "OMGZ THERE IZ SO MANY IPS!!!"... Universal can be a business all it wants, but its a bad business when they refuse to offer people more for their money to keep them happy.

Although I do agree completely with you Chris, I think in a way you're comparing apples to oranges haha

Yes, Knotts does more in terms of quantity, I promise you it's nowhere near the quality and detail that goes into HHN. Now am I saying everything that HHN does is perfect? Heck no! But I do have to say the level of detail is unmatched anywhere else. A house could completely suck but damn it'll probably look good!

The only other park-wide event I've ever been to outside of HHN is Cedar Point and Chris can contest that it's not all that great (at least I remember you saying you had been to Halloweekends). Considering that Knott's is owned by the same company, I can only assume it's probably on the same level. Perhaps I'm wrong.

But sure they have 14,000 houses but are they the same level of detail and such? I'm sure HHN could do everything you mentioned if they wanted to, but I don't think it would be up to par with what we expect from this event when it comes to quality.

Now the shows....that's a whole different story haha The shows they pump out now aren't that great....so I'm sure a few others wouldn't hurt :P

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While I don't disagree with your points, until people en masse stop coming, that won't really change. They know they can get away with less, and if people are still willing to pay, there's no need to change the model. Knott's isn't really a fair comparison, though, as they have a much more competitive market than Orlando. I'd be very curious to know how the GP feels about the product offerings as of late. This year's business will probably be pretty telling, although I'm honestly expecting a repeat of last year's numbers. Especially with Transformers now, assuming it's open.

It is true they won't change, but a third show (or more) could have helped a lot last year with the crowds. Maybe they won't do more shows because they don't care. But more shows could help with the crowds, Specially this year.

Maybe they don't have to compete with anyone, but I also wonder how much does negative word of mouth affects HHN in general. Usually when a lot of people complain about something they will step up and either fix the problem or change something.

So, maybe if enough people complained about the lack of shows, they would do something? I don't know. It kind of makes me wish people started complain about the magic shows and the lack of shows at the event.

Maybe Then they would do something about it.

Edited by LV-426
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I haven't been to Cedar Point's version of Halloween Haunt, but its probably not the same as Knott's. HHNH has forced Knott's to stop resting on their laurels and step up their game. Plus, Knott's has very experienced designers. The only real thing that keeps the details from being "HHN Level" is budget. (And MAYBE overall design philosophy, but thats a topic for another day. )

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There is a lot going on in this discussion, and personally I think it’s all hilarious. The humor comes from the familiarity in it all, because it’s nearly identically to the “O Noez, eye-peez” complaining that occurred last year. A couple of statements so far have nailed the issue, however, especially boogeyman’s:

Last year should have been an eye opener into just how much we as the hardcore fans impact revenue streams. If we were really that influential, then the event would have been selling out for years, not just when they got a hot IP for the event.

Nightmares has some of the most devoted HHN fans and one of the largest communities. That stated, there are currently only 2,489 members. Assuming that is only 10% of HHN’s “hard core” fans are on the site(an intentionally low estimation as it’s really impossible to be exact), and only the hard core fans went on a single night (roughly 25,000 with my math), the park would not even reach half of its theoretical capacity. The park with a theoretical capacity of 55,000 would only have 25,000 people in it. In reality, the “hard core” multi-night attendees are likely less than 2,000 people on any given night.

While that’s great from a guest’s perspective, it’s horrible from a financial perspective. Hollywood has had success in bringing in a more casual audience by heavily promoting IPs. Orlando is now doing the same because, guess what, it works. Logically, we don’t matter as much as everyone else. Sorry to deflate your importance, but it’s true.

While yes, fans bring people in, I think some of the statements in this thread over-inflate our impact. What’s the most effective way to bring people in, legitimately? Is it word-of-mouth or a regional-to-international advertising campaign focused on instantly recognizable visuals? It’s the ad campaign. The reason why is that the general public is predictable, impulsive and stupid. You can’t fight it; you can only deal with it.

Well, you can fight it, but you have to be completely willing to fight it. And it’s really simple:

IF YOU DON’T LIKE WHAT THEY’RE PRESENTING THEN DON’T GO.

I know, people always say that. But it’s repeated because it’s the truth. If you don’t think Universal is providing enough to do for the cost of the ticket, the same rule applies. Don’t go.

True story. HHN and I go way back. Hell, I met my wife through HHN. She worked the event the years, and I’ve been a fan since it started. But we don’t go anymore. We didn’t go last year because we didn’t feel what they were offering was worth the cost. We aren’t going this year because we don’t feel what they’re offering is worth the cost. That’s actually why we don’t go to any theme parks regularly anymore. It’s too damn expensive.

It’s not hard if you’re willing to do it.

But here’s the important catch: I know my silent boycott doesn’t mean a thing. If you boycott it because of the heavy use of IPs, it won’t mean anything either. Because the general public eats it up and doesn’t know any better. There’s going to be a generation of people who never experienced the event you fell in love with who will fall in love with HHN the way it is now.

Universal is a business, not a vanity project. There is still a great deal of artistry in the event, regardless of IPs or original content. Saying the event is being “ruined” by IPs is actually doing a massive disservice to the artists, designers, directors, builders and technicians who create the event. It’s not being ruined, it’s being profitable. That’s business. If it really bugs you that much, stop giving them profits. You’ll have a lot less to complain about.

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All vaild points... and maybe someday I'll stop howling about the tack I'm sitting on and finally get up :)

Nobody wants to see the thing you love get destroyed. I've seen the event go from one house to 8. It ebs and flows.

You are probably right, nobody would care if I left the community in the grand scheme of it. Everyone thought last year was a fluke but I think its now sinking in that this will be the status quo. If not yet then it will be after this year... BC even I think this line up isn't bad. I just dread that it further cements this modus operandi for a long time. Until the GP go: "Gee its the 4th year we've seen The Walking Dead... this is boring" and then things will change.

i fall back to the fact that I have never really had a bad experience (well minus '07 but that was just a bad night) and I love what creativity and immersion there is. The price is at that make or break point for me. So we will see. But you are right... If you don't like it don't go. sure do the surveys, voice your opinon here, or whatever but it hasn't changed.. and is highly unlikely to change..... so that is that.

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Just to be clear, I'm not saying that HHN or even Ultra for that matter aren't great events. They have really great quality but it's coming to a point where things are starting to feel a little excessive. I understand IPs bring in crowds, and honestly I do not mind IPs at all. But when the whole event is practically all IP houses, I find that very, very excessive. I know IPs have always been around but it's not the fact that they exist that bugs me it's the fact that they've taken over the event. It's simply isn't the same. Walking into a house that's a movie I already saw isn't as scary as walking into a completely foreign world that A&D has created. I remember when I watched the video on the travel channel (or discovery?) that was of Islands of Fear. To me, that's what HHN is about. A sick icon, some sick houses, and some sick scare zones with some shows in there. I use to literally dream of being involved with the creation of HHN as a kid. That dream is long gone. I mean, it's practically laid out for them almost besides the actual design of the houses. But the ideas are all there already to pick at. And now they're also throwing video games into the mix... They could have at least picked a good horror game that hasn't failed as of recently...

And I agree that you're not getting what you pay for at HHN anymore. Other events really do have more, and even if they do get repeated houses, who cares? We just get a bunch of movies every year. Heck, look at this year, if we do indeed get CITW and ED, they're practically the same excluding the endings. Not to mention TWD and the prison house.

Edited by Goo
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Goo, which event are you going to? There was only two movie houses last year, only one the year before that, and none the year before that. And while the IP houses can get to be a bit clip show-ish at times, I think you're also underselling the talent of A&D a little bit. There's still a lot of artistry that goes into a house, whether it's an IP house or not.

Last year, I was a big supporter of a lot of the anti-IP points being made here. But I'll tell you, my favorite house without question was House of Horrors. Why? Because it took a simple concept, through in a bunch of atmosphere, gave it a twist, and used a stellar cast. The first time through, the Dracula in the hallway even got me. And I can usually see scare actors coming a mile away. It left me a new appreciation for IP's.

As I wrote in my last post, things change. The market and the consumer base changes, and you should expect the event to change as well. Legacy it sounds like you and I are in pretty much solid agreement here. If you don't like it, don't go. Go check out some local haunts, or go to Busch Gardens, or become a home haunter. That's one of the best parts of Halloween, you can celebrate it a million different ways and have a blast.

I for one am looking forward to this year's event. I'm expecting it to be crowded, loud, tiring as all hell, and expensive. But I'm making a choice to partake in it, because it's still the best option out there for this type of experience. Hell, I'm willing to fly down from Illinois to enjoy 4 nights of it, because it's something you just can't get anywhere else, IP's or not. And while it may be different from what it was 4+ years ago, I'd hardly call it ruined. And as for the price, when your average haunt is anywhere between 16-30 dollars for a single 20 minute house, HHN is still one hell of a deal, and I have zero problem supporting them financially for the show they put on.

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