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Halloween Horror Nights 23 Wishful Thinking


Mark M.
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^ But a lot of them were original or had their own original take on something. That's what made it amazing.

I agree. Even The Thing was designed around a movie that hadn't been released.

But I went to 21 and 22 the same pre Halloween week and the lines were significantly longer this year. That's pretty good evidence that there was way more attendance. And when you're looking at an IP heavy or an original event from a business perspective, the choice is clear.

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See the thing is they aren't focusing on making the event scary anymore...All they focus on now is trying to cram as many people into the park to make money off of tickets, food, and of course merchandise...It's all about the money..Unfourtunately. The scare factor definitely dropped for me last year big time...where at HHN 20 & 21 the scare factor was higher.

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Patrick said last night that every house starts off original, even if its an IP

Ok, so maybe we need to clarify. We like original ideas, story's and concepts from the minds of A&D! Not something that is already created by someone else and popular that they just create a house around!

That sound better? :)

They need to make money, but I agree! Universal needs to find a way to put he Horror back into Halloween "HORROR" Nights. More blood, more gore, more/better "in your face" type scares!

Or we can just call it Halloween "Cha-Ching we Sold Out" Nights!

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Its almost like deep down A&D knows they cant be scary so they go all out on the details.. IMO the event is rated PG but they cant say its PG cause if they do they have to start selling kids tickets.

For an event thats going on 23yrs they can do any house they want and the crowds well still come (To a point). Its going to be fun this yr to watch the crowds, I remember in 08 the crowds were small, granted the market was shit, but a lot of ppl didnt like all the crowds from 07 so they didnt go to 08

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Rick said, "Well, I can't get specific, but if you liked Horror Unearthed last year, you won't be disappointed this year." .

That makes me really happy. I wonder exactly what it will be. I hope they start hyping the games in the summer like how they did for 2008. That would be the bees knees.

I'm with everyone on how I hope they make it scary again and keep the primary original influence. But that seems to be a unanimous thought and I'm just reiterating myself and others.

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Btw, in the silent auction, I won the behind the scenes tour - which includes a lights on tour of ALL the houses WITH an A&D person. I am friggin BEYOND myself..

cool.. I picked up the Barbara Meetz costume. I wasn't expecting to bid on anything so I was happy :)

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I just completed a project on the religion Voodoo. I think it would be really cool to have a house based on the black magic/dark side of voodoo, known as Petro. There you'll find human sacrifices, hexes, and all sorts of really interesting things. I think it would make a really cool house, but it could be seen as offensive to the practitioners. But, just a wishful thought. :)

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Animatronics, for the most part, I don't care for unless they are just things that can't be done by humans. Even a puppet IMO is better than a robot. Puppets can interact better and don't break nearly as often. Low tech is almost always more reliable.

Hollywood used a La Llorona puppet scare last year and it looked terrifying. That also seems to be the hot new thing in the industry this year, along with clowns. Alot of vendors are trying to break into the oversized costume department. Another thing I noticed from seeing Transworld coverage is that it looks like masks are making a comeback. Prosthetics were the bee's knees for a few years, but now with silicone masks becoming slightly more affordable, it seems like they might be the majority at haunts again. There was one vendor (I don't know the name of the company) that had silicone prosthetics, and as they advance that technology, it'll probably become the new hot thing.

TJ was at the show on Wednesday teaching a seminar, but he obviously didn't stay for when the floor opened on Thursday if he was at the entertainers' forum. From seeing pictures and POVs, from what I can tell, it looks like Hollywood deals with alot of outside vendors for some of their static props. I'm also pretty sure that the cost of a prop featured at Transworld wouldn't blow Universal's budget.

Now, for those of you that are saying you want more "in your face", intense, innovative scares: I have to ask, what more do you want? I don't know how many of you follow the industry outside of Horror Nights, but Universal has been pushing the envelope in terms of scare tactics for a few years now. "In your face" scares cannot happen simply because of safety for the actors. The scares are always going to be quick and fast. There are haunts I've been to where the actors will stay in the room and interact more with guests, but those haunts use a grouper out front, so problems are much easier to handle. You can't have an actor hanging out in a room with guests packed in the "conga line". As for intense and innovative, Universal has both. They have the latest innovation of flying actors, scares that use your perspective (think distant cemetery), vortex tunnels (an old gag, but is still being improved every year), bungee actors, the most elaborate distractions (Gothic cathedral balcony, tilted walkway in Forsaken, "waterfall" in Saws n Steam), brilliant use of mirrors, and "theatrical scares", something you will rarely find outside of Horror Nights. A theatrical scare is when you will see an actor pop out with triggered lights and audio. Your local haunted attraction and theme park don't use this scare because of how expensive it can be and because they don't know how to use it. They also use your haunted house standard drop panels and boo doors, which I still find very startling. So in terms of innovation, Universal is still the leader. I agree that they should continue to always push the envelope, but to give the idea that they are behind is just silly.

Edited by Coast
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Now, for those of you that are saying you want more "in your face", intense, innovative scares: I have to ask, what more do you want? I don't know how many of you follow the industry outside of Horror Nights, but Universal has been pushing the envelope in terms of scare tactics for a few years now. "In your face" scares cannot happen simply because of safety for the actors. The scares are always going to be quick and fast. There are haunts I've been to where the actors will stay in the room and interact more with guests, but those haunts use a grouper out front, so problems are much easier to handle. You can't have an actor hanging out in a room with guests packed in the "conga line". As for intense and innovative, Universal has both. They have the latest innovation of flying actors, scares that use your perspective (think distant cemetery), vortex tunnels (an old gag, but is still being improved every year), bungee actors, the most elaborate distractions (Gothic cathedral balcony, tilted walkway in Forsaken, "waterfall" in Saws n Steam), brilliant use of mirrors, and "theatrical scares", something you will rarely find outside of Horror Nights. A theatrical scare is when you will see an actor pop out with triggered lights and audio. Your local haunted attraction and theme park don't use this scare because of how expensive it can be and because they don't know how to use it. They also use your haunted house standard drop panels and boo doors, which I still find very startling. So in terms of innovation, Universal is still the leader. I agree that they should continue to always push the envelope, but to give the idea that they are behind is just silly.

This is absolutely true! I think the issue is that people see a haunt like Netherworld or The Darkness, and assume that that all haunts are like that. In actuality, however, 99% of the haunts out there rely on old techniques, have a much smaller budget, and don't have the innovation that Universal does. This is a critique that comes up every year, and I just don't see it, personally. Go check out an average haunt. Are they fun? Sure. But they don't operate on the same level as HHN.

And as for the event losing its intensity over the years, while some of that may very well be true, I think it's also possible that we're just getting more used to the event. This has been brought up by others before, but there are only so many ways you can scare someone. And with 7-8 houses a year, you burn through the catalog pretty quickly. You also start to get a feel for where potential scares could come from. Not to say that new techniques aren't being developed, just that there are some pretty common strategies for scaring in a house; and just like a horror film, if you're exposed to it enough, it becomes a bit mundane and predictable.

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I'm always interested by the requests for a "scarier" event.

All the requests ask for visual stimuli or more aggressive scareactors.

The one thing that isn't ask for, or at least I haven't seen it, is better sound.

Sound? One might ask.

The most terrifying house I've been in was Dead Exposure. I became more and more apprehensive of it as I approached the house. The facade didn't cause my apprehension and fear to start. It was the sound. Not the music being played in the queue, but the sounds of the house. A low level hum. Barely audible. Almost like wind or white noise , but it vibrated in your bones. And with each step, it sent waves of discord. It felt off. Out of sync.

Sound plays a large role in human perception. Major chord = happy. Minor chord = sad. Augmented can place us on edge.

For everyone who went through Catacombs, close your eyes and think about that house.

What do you hear?

How excited were you the first time you heard the siren from SH last year?

I think sound plays a key role in our experience. I've also sensed a lack in the sounds the past couple of years. They seemed less refined for me. There is either too much or too little or they seem very cliche.

A perfect house would be a well balanced assault on all our senses.

Well except for taste. No tasting the houses. :P

Edited by mystiquephreeq
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to elaborate on boogieman's last thought, I think that in addition to being more hardened after years of attending we also learn a greater appreciation for the event & houses. That may come out as being more critical, but it's because we love it so much. We get a lot more out of it than face value. Part of me misses when the event was smaller and more niche, but would it have survived all these years if it wasn't as popular? So it must serve both the hardcore and the casual. I think A&D does the best they can to strike that balance.

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Imagine a house with nightingales but world war 2'd? I think an amazing effect would be a trench being attacked by mustard gas (easy effect, yellow lights, smoke, faint mell of burning) All by being harassed by the nightingales. Instead of plague doctors, we'd have doctors with nightmarish gas masks. It's not a hard concept, but it would have good execution! Yes Please! NIGHTINGALES 2-HHN 23

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I'm always interested by the requests for a "scarier" event.

All the requests ask for visual stimuli or more aggressive scareactors.

The one thing that isn't ask for, or at least I haven't seen it, is better sound.

Sound? One might ask.

The most terrifying house I've been in was Dead Exposure. I became more and more apprehensive of it as I approached the house. The facade didn't cause my apprehension and fear to start. It was the sound. Not the music being played in the queue, but the sounds of the house. A low level hum. Barely audible. Almost like wind or white noise , but it vibrated in your bones. And with each step, it sent waves of discord. It felt off. Out of sync.

Sound plays a large role in human perception. Major chord = happy. Minor chord = sad. Augmented can place us on edge.

For everyone who went through Catacombs, close your eyes and think about that house.

What do you hear?

How excited were you the first time you heard the siren from SH last year?

I think sound plays a key role in our experience. I've also sensed a lack in the sounds the past couple of years. They seemed less refined for me. There is either too much or too little or they seem very cliche.

A perfect house would be a well balanced assault on all our senses.

Well except for taste. No tasting the houses. :P

As an aspiring audio engineer, I appreciate this more than you realize. I've always said that if my dreams of becoming an Imagineer don't come true, I would love to work for HHN as their lead audio engineer :)

Who knows, maybe one day I'll be the one to appease your audio wants and needs....but let's hope someone figures out how to make it happen before then :P

Edited by CoreySalyer
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Now, for those of you that are saying you want more "in your face", intense, innovative scares: I have to ask, what more do you want? I don't know how many of you follow the industry outside of Horror Nights, but Universal has been pushing the envelope in terms of scare tactics for a few years now. "In your face" scares cannot happen simply because of safety for the actors.

Speaking strictly for myself, when I say I want "in your face," I'm not referring to the performers. I'm blessed and grateful to have experienced so much scareactor-in-face action that I can't slip a piece of paper between us (*cough* showmaninlap *cough*). I'm referring more to increasing the gore and blood, for one. Psychological shenanigans - mess with my head to the max.

Geez, that sounds healthy...

I'm not a creative type, so I don't have the ability to suggest how to achieve some of these things to the level that I would wish for. All I can do is to attempt to express my thoughts and feelings to the best of my ability. And hope someone can put together a really disgusting way to make me piddle my pants. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate the heck out of everything that creative continues to bring us every year, because I genuinely do. Just putting my feelings out there to muse over, or not.

Speak for yourself ;):D

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As for intense and innovative, Universal has both. They have the latest innovation of flying actors, scares that use your perspective (think distant cemetery), vortex tunnels (an old gag, but is still being improved every year), bungee actors, the most elaborate distractions (Gothic cathedral balcony, tilted walkway in Forsaken, "waterfall" in Saws n Steam), brilliant use of mirrors, and "theatrical scares", something you will rarely find outside of Horror Nights.

I had to comment, because very little of your examples are as innovative as you may believe.

Flying actors are at least a decade old (Castle Vampyr).

Forced perspective is nothing new, and is immaterial to an actual scare.

Bungies have been used in HHN since at least 04 (and I've heard earlier).

Last year's vortex in Dead End is the first time I can recall of them doing something unique with a vortex.

I'm not sure what the balcony scene is (didn't go last year), but if its like the catwalk scene from Dead Silence or Interstellar Terror, than its been done.

Tilted floors have been used in local haunts and fun houses for years. Year 2011 was the first year Universal did it.

A waterfall was used in Maximum Carnage in 2002.

Mirror effects have been used repeatedly for years. The final elf scare from Bloodengutz was identical to the Caretaker scare in 2002's Screamhouse.

And the effectiveness of e-proms is arguable at best. I feel HHN relies too heavily on them, and creates a formulaic experience. Besides, and good Scareactor can be more terrifying without it.

I visited a non-descript local haunt in Augusta, GA last year that had more innovation than I've really seen from Uni in a while. It had a vortex, tilting floors (multiple directions) with a lowering ceiling, a spiked wall that collapsed on you as you walked past, walls that shocked you if you touched them, and varying surfaces to walk on. It also had a creek, a schoolbus, scares from multiple levels and great performances. The performers didn't interact with us, because frankly we were too scared to let them.

Creative local haunts will be more innovative than Universal because they HAVE to be. Universal is has become too popular to be really scary and innovative. It's the Chilli's of horror experiences; it gives people exactly what they want in an effective package. But if you want something spectacular, you have to look elsewhere.

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HHN is rated PG IMO, many Haunts are borderline rated R in some cases.. I'm not a fan of gore but some Haunts do it well enough were its not so over the top.. HHN isnt intense and hasnt been in yrs.

All gore is generally useless to me. Does nothing for me. I did my first dissection at 12. I cut open a shark, removed its liver, removed its stomach, and then removed its last meal from its stomach. I watch medical shows for fun. I've given birth twice. Gore is just a part of the human body.

Visual immersion is all good and well, but blood flung about a room? Intestines hanging? Cut open bodies? Completely useless visual without the proper smells attached. And I've never once smelled blood or decomposition at HHN.

Gore always takes me out of the moment, because I can tell it's not real.

This probably makes me sound extremely twisted, but I'm a sciency type of person.

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This is absolutely true! I think the issue is that people see a haunt like Netherworld or The Darkness, and assume that that all haunts are like that. In actuality, however, 99% of the haunts out there rely on old techniques, have a much smaller budget, and don't have the innovation that Universal does. This is a critique that comes up every year, and I just don't see it, personally. Go check out an average haunt. Are they fun? Sure. But they don't operate on the same level as HHN.

And as for the event losing its intensity over the years, while some of that may very well be true, I think it's also possible that we're just getting more used to the event. This has been brought up by others before, but there are only so many ways you can scare someone. And with 7-8 houses a year, you burn through the catalog pretty quickly. You also start to get a feel for where potential scares could come from. Not to say that new techniques aren't being developed, just that there are some pretty common strategies for scaring in a house; and just like a horror film, if you're exposed to it enough, it becomes a bit mundane and predictable.

Netherworld looks like a really, really good haunt and I plan on getting there someday. They look like they have some really awesome sets and they use alot of massive animatronics.

You also bring up a great point about scare tactics.. there's only so many ways you can go about doing it. Universal loved the air cannons last year, so that brought a fresher startle to some rooms. What A&D does so brilliantly is the distractions, and it seems like they have combining them with the old school scares down to a science.

The biggest scare for me at last year's event was sound based. The speaker mounted above your head for the Pepper's Ghost effect was huge. I peed my pants.

I never said that those effects were innovative in the years that I gave examples of (those were the years I visited, so I used my personal experiences). You just further supported my point that Universal is the innovator behind those tactics.

Also, I am 100% all for e-prompts. It's used for a reason. By having the sound triggered with speakers, it allows the actor to save their voice from screaming over and over and over throughout the course of a night. The automation will also allow for the scare to always be consistent. Just picture yourself standing in your spot in the house without a trigger. not only are you exhausted, but your throat is incredibly sore or you have lost your voice. As an actor, you know that you are expected to deliver consistent scares four or five nights in a row and you can't do that if your voicebox is fried. I plan on running my own haunt someday, and I will make sure that I have as many automated theatrical scares as possible.

Also, the smaller haunts are able to do the more physical scares that you mentioned because the event is nowhere near the size of HHN. Different ballgame.

Edited by Coast
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I never said that those effects were innovative in the years that I gave examples of (those were the years I visited, so I used my personal experiences). You just further supported my point that Universal is the innovator behind those tactics.

Not quite. They're reusing the same tactics. That's not innovative (that's assuming it's not something done elsewhere first). HHN isn't the be-all, end-all.

I've done it. Two years. I've add an e-prom one night in two years. It's a lot easier to scare without them than you think. It just requires a bit of skill (something they don't cast for anymore? really). I've terrified thousands without saying a word. They aren't needed.

The e-prom is more intended to prevent improv because of issues they've had.

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All gore is generally useless to me. Does nothing for me. I did my first dissection at 12. I cut open a shark, removed its liver, removed its stomach, and then removed its last meal from its stomach. I watch medical shows for fun. I've given birth twice. Gore is just a part of the human body.

Visual immersion is all good and well, but blood flung about a room? Intestines hanging? Cut open bodies? Completely useless visual without the proper smells attached. And I've never once smelled blood or decomposition at HHN.

Gore always takes me out of the moment, because I can tell it's not real.

This probably makes me sound extremely twisted, but I'm a sciency type of person.

I agree. I think the initial factor of gore is its shock. Our culture is inundated with graphic scenes. It means nothing anymore. Gore may get you at first but ultimately you become more and more desensitized and jaded to everything.

They DID use smells (did you smells hell's kitchen?... Psychoscarapy? :wacko:) They make people complain.

I've seen all the gags. They even used a few of in the old days they don't use any more (slides, ball pits, rotating rooms, walls that crush, etc.) but does that mean its less scary now? I really don't think so. The event is more intense, more polished, and more cohesive by far than it used to be. We are just immune to it. You can only go so far with a scare. Technology, scareactors, costumes, music, and sets are just tools. Also, familiarity makes things even less scary. You are more uneasy at some local haunt because its new and its unknown. Is it really safe? Universal you know will be safe no matter what they throw at you. You know the house locations, the park, the props, etc. Its all familiar hence less scary. The biggest scare I've gotten in the last few years were at Ripley's Haunted Adventure in TN. And it is really not scary. I just didn't know what to expect. Second time through... pish.

I'm curious what people who feel its not scary want to happen? Real blades, real chainsaws, scareactors punch you in the face (I know a few who would like to get some revenge ;) )? You know its not real you know what to expect what is going to be scarier? Every year we have people complain but I've never really once seen anyone post something that made the event scarier. Universal does listen as they have said and proven... so let's here what, specifically, will make it scarier.

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I've done it. Two years. I've add an e-prom one night in two years. It's a lot easier to scare without them than you think. It just requires a bit of skill (something they don't cast for anymore? really). I've terrified thousands without saying a word. They aren't needed.

The e-prom is more intended to prevent improv because of issues they've had.

Good for you. I don't mean this in a nasty way, either. Seriously, thank you for being an actor that brings intensity every night.

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