Not That Original

[LV-426]

Well, yes and no? You are absolutely right about the Thing house. They took the story and did their own sequel. The NLC houses though, from what I understand and have seen, were really nothing more than a collection of "best of" scenes from the franchises in general. Not really following a film's story, nor really any story at all, but just showcasing the more well known kills from each series.

I do have to give them some credit though on those, though. I liked that they did try to bring in some of the mythos to add some new contextual elements, even if the kills were nothing new (at least in the Elm Street house, not sure about the others). But I could be wrong, as I wasn't there that year. Can someone confirm/deny?

I was there, and, I remember there were some scenes recreated from the movies, but the story was that you went into Freddy's world, You took Hypnocil and you went into the dream world or something, they made the entrance of the house the same as the movie, and some rooms looked like the movies, but it was not only a "best of" it had its own plot, kinda,

I mean, I understand why you would hate IP houses, I understand about loving original houses, but I think is not realistic to think that IP houses will be stopped, they are well received as well,

I know there is no way to change the mind of the people that hate them, just like I Hated leave it to Cleaver, nothing will ever make me stop hating that house, but not all IP houses are bad, some of them are really good, people like them, people expect them even,

[Grimp0nd]

For me, with something like The Walking Dead, living part of an episode out is going to be an amazing experience, simply because I absolutely love the show. Putting me in the characters shoes makes me empathize with their situation even moreso. For that particular show, that's just my perspective. Then again, I'd probably be happy with about anything TWD oriented for this year...I'm not hard to please at all.

Ok a house just full of Shane, Lori and Carl it is then lol. Are you sure you don't want to revise that statement lmao?

[boogeyman13]

I was there, and, I remember there were some scenes recreated from the movies, but the story was that you went into Freddy's world, You took Hypnocil and you went into the dream world or something, they made the entrance of the house the same as the movie, and some rooms looked like the movies, but it was not only a "best of" it had its own plot, kinda,

I mean, I understand why you would hate IP houses, I understand about loving original houses, but I think is not realistic to think that IP houses will be stopped, they are well received as well,

I know there is no way to change the mind of the people that hate them, just like I Hated leave it to Cleaver, nothing will ever make me stop hating that house, but not all IP houses are bad, some of them are really good, people like them, people expect them even,

Who said anything about hating IP houses? I didn't hate anything from HHN XX, and I doubt I'll hate anything this year. Do I think that there are better ways to execute some things? Absolutely. But if I thought I was going to hate half the houses at this year's event, I wouldn't be spending a few grand to go down there with my wife for a week!

And I'm fine with IP houses in theory. Heck, if the DE-style house rumored for this year comes true, I'm going to love every moment I'm in there! As I've outlined in a couple of the posts above, I just think there are some better ways to go about it, and having an IP house doesn't mean you have to follow the shooting script and not come up with your own ideas. But that, of course, is an ideal, which would also be contingent on the license holder approving the new concept.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to having fun. And Universal is in a position that they have the budget and the space to offer up a multitude of scares for a variety of people, no matter where their interests lie. If people can get scared and have fun, or see something that they just couldn't see at a local haunt, then I say Universal has done a good job. No one's going to like every piece of the event, but that's okay. I'm sure there will be something else there that they will love. That's one of the best things about this time of year: no matter what you're afraid of, Halloween, and Universal by extension, has you covered.

[LV-426]

Who said anything about hating IP houses? I didn't hate anything from HHN XX, and I doubt I'll hate anything this year. Do I think that there are better ways to execute some things? Absolutely. But if I thought I was going to hate half the houses at this year's event, I wouldn't be spending a few grand to go down there with my wife for a week!

And I'm fine with IP houses in theory. Heck, if the DE-style house rumored for this year comes true, I'm going to love every moment I'm in there! As I've outlined in a couple of the posts above, I just think there are some better ways to go about it, and having an IP house doesn't mean you have to follow the shooting script and not come up with your own ideas. But that, of course, is an ideal, which would also be contingent on the license holder approving the new concept.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to having fun. And Universal is in a position that they have the budget and the space to offer up a multitude of scares for a variety of people, no matter where their interests lie. If people can get scared and have fun, or see something that they just couldn't see at a local haunt, then I say Universal has done a good job. No one's going to like every piece of the event, but that's okay. I'm sure there will be something else there that they will love. That's one of the best things about this time of year: no matter what you're afraid of, Halloween, and Universal by extension, has you covered.

i thought you hated them since people that talk bad about IP houses hate them and want them gone forever, lol sorry, I just assumed you hated them like the others

[boogeyman13]

i thought you hated them since people that talk bad about IP houses hate them and want them gone forever, lol sorry, I just assumed you hated them like the others

No worries. My preference is certainly for original houses, but I think IP houses can still be enjoyable depending on how they're handled. Honestly my biggest wariness for this year's event was the P&T house. Not because it's an IP, but just because I don't really equate them with either horror or Halloween. But from the pics we've seen, it looks like it might be an interesting house regardless. And to tie this back into the first post, it seems like this is going to be a good example of an IP still being original.

[jarmor]

I dunno if I would label the house that share names/storylines as "returning" I personally think "sequel" is most fitting. "Returning" is what a lot of other park event do with their house meaning its the exact same thing in generally the exact same space with little to no changes. When Universal did it, from my experiences from 2004 until now, it was always a different experience.

Just my .02 cents...

[Hush]

Ok a house just full of Shane, Lori and Carl it is then lol. Are you sure you don't want to revise that statement lmao?

If that house includes the option for me to smack Lori, shoot Shane and lock Carl in a room where he can't wander away...I'm completely down with it ;-) LOL

[Grimp0nd]

If that house includes the option for me to smack Lori, shoot Shane and lock Carl in a room where he can't wander away...I'm completely down with it ;-) LOL

Carl has magical wandering powers. No room can hold him lol.

[JDW]

There are only a few basic plots in the world:

Sacrifice

Rise and Fall

Transformation

Revenge

Chase

Quest

Romance

Competition

And only few types of conflict:

Man vs. Man

Man vs. Nature

Man vs. Himself

Man vs. God

Man vs. Society

Man caught in the Middle

Man & Woman

The survival horror genere is usually limited to man vs. machine/monster (which is various combinations of the above). With the ultimate plot of survival.

Naturally the scope is severly limited in ideas & plot. It's only natural to pull ideas from everywhere... its how the crative process works with the prize going to the person who can spin it in the most unique way... or rip off the most obscure source. Every original idea can be traced to source material... the best creator are the ones who can hide the most in a new package.

People like to be immeresed in familiar stories... So IP's fill that need. Universal being a movie company it's natural for these houses to exist. They can sometimes be even more challenging to create though as the are more restircted in the implemetation. But, to me, as long as they are true to the source, yet show it in a new light... I don't mind it at all and many have been some of my top houses.

That is why I've been obsessed with reading all the SCP's. So much creativity to use as a springboard.

[Hush]

Carl has magical wandering powers. No room can hold him lol.

You are killing me with these comments...LOL

However, I think you are spot on. Carl would make a great magician..."Now you see me, now you don't!"

[mystiquephreeq]

I hate to be a pain, but I am going to voice the opinion that Nightingales may not have been completely original.

Can't prove it, but look up Little Sisters of Eluria. It's a short story by Stephen King. There ate similarities to the Noghtingales and it was the first thing I thought of when Nightingales was announced.

[Hush]

I hate to be a pain, but I am going to voice the opinion that Nightingales may not have been completely original.

Can't prove it, but look up Little Sisters of Eluria. It's a short story by Stephen King. There ate similarities to the Noghtingales and it was the first thing I thought of when Nightingales was announced.

You know, I couldn't place where I had read something that was very similiar to the Nightingales concept...and THAT is it, "Little Sisters of Eluria"...thank you for jolting my brain into remembering that. I'm going to go pull my copy of "Everything's Eventual" this weekend and re-read that one.

[mystiquephreeq]

You know, I couldn't place where I had read something that was very similiar to the Nightingales concept...and THAT is it, "Little Sisters of Eluria"...thank you for jolting my brain into remembering that. I'm going to go pull my copy of "Everything's Eventual" this weekend and re-read that one.

Your welcome!

I have a memory like a sponge when it comes to Mr. King's works. Of course that short story stood out since it was a Dark Tower story.

I actually drive my husband crazy because I'll read a new King novel (not that many of them are new to me anymore), and I will read a name that I've read before. This causes a search through my King library until I can find which book the name was first mentioned in.

[Hush]

Your welcome!

I have a memory like a sponge when it comes to Mr. King's works. Of course that short story stood out since it was a Dark Tower story.

I actually drive my husband crazy because I'll read a new King novel (not that many of them are new to me anymore), and I will read a name that I've read before. This causes a search through my King library until I can find which book the name was first mentioned in.

I'm a King fan myself, along with Koontz But for some reason, this story, I remembered reading something that seemed very familiar to the Nightingales concept, but couldn't place it for the life of me! (I'm ashamed to say but I haven't read 11/22/63 yet....)

I have a noggin full of useless factoids about the most random shit...you and I would be great on Jeopardy!

I'm looking forward to re-reading that short story now and making the comparisons.

[Grimp0nd]

You are killing me with these comments...LOL

However, I think you are spot on. Carl would make a great magician..."Now you see me, now you don't!"

OMG you are so right! You realise what this means right? He's going to wander right out of The Walking Dead house and find himself in the Penn and Teller house performing his dissapearing act lol.

[Hush]

OMG you are so right! You realise what this means right? He's going to wander right out of The Walking Dead house and find himself in the Penn and Teller house performing his dissapearing act lol.

Note to self Lori, if you can't find Carl he's over hanging out with Penn and Teller. That would be hysterical actually, walking through the P&T house and Carl being there...we could be "THAT explains where he was all season 2 and why he's so good at just disappearing into thing air! It all makes sense now!"

[Jakemeister]

Everything is an original concept in form so I think the whole "It's Not Original" line is irrelevant. It's quite apparent that just because there is a source material that they can't pull a house out of thin air. It took time, effort and dare I say creativity to take the decent movies 'Doomsday' or 'Dead Silence' to pretty good houses. It's not as simple as taking source material and plopping it down, especially since 'Nightmare on Elm Street', 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre', and 'Friday the 13th' all had completely original story lines and weren't "best of's" houses.

If you want to really get into finding "inspiration" from current movies and tv shows Scarezones are some of the worst about that.

[LV-426]

like I was saying before, every other haunt in the country is original, there are hundreds of haunts all over the nation that are original, here in FL we have HOS, and there are haunts in Miami and Tampa,

if people hate IP houses so much, you would think they would just visit HOS instead, or any of the other haunts, Netherworld, Six Flags ,Knott's scary farm,

I mean really there are hundreds, some of them are more intense than HHN, some of them are less crowded, some of them have better costumes and animatronics actually,

not to sound bitter or anything, but Universal IS Universal, A Movie Studio/ theme park, their business is movies, it would actually not make much sense if they didn't use properties for houses, I never understood why so many people complain about that,and don't see it,

of course I love original houses too, but

it would be like wishing that Disney parades didn't have mickey or Donald or Goofy for example, doesn't make much sense

I mean, the only point I'm making is that, Universal goes the extra mile to bring movie properties for the fans, making deals with New Line Cinema for example, I see it that way too, I never see IP houses as a negative, even if the house sucks, it is still like a treat for fans, and then they use the houses to promote their movies, they are the one of the few companies making haunted houses that can bring movies to life,

Edited August 7, 2012 by black mask

[Blizzrock13]

I never see IP houses as a negative, even if the house sucks, it is still like a treat for fans, and then they use the houses to promote their movies, they are the one of the few companies making haunted houses that can bring movies to life,

I guess I find myself rarely a big fan of the movies that Universal selects. I mean, obviously the New Line deal brought a lot of classics in, but all too often it just seems like they find whatever sub-par movie they're turning out in the general time frame and say "good enough."

Doomsday? The Wolfman? The Thing? These had classics as their origins, but the modern movies themselves were pretty awful. Chucky had some degree of prestige at some point, but when was the last time someone left a Saw sequel saying "that was a good use of my two hours"?

So, I guess I don't really get the same things out of those houses that, say, a huge fan of the movie would. Now, if there was a house based on The Shining or Halloween or....

*wishful thinking*

Edited August 7, 2012 by Blizzrock13

[armyofrobots]

I guess I find myself rarely a big fan of the movies that Universal selects. I mean, obviously the New Line deal brought a lot of classics in, but all too often it just seems like they find whatever sub-par movie they're turning out in the general time frame and say "good enough."

Doomsday? The Wolfman? The Thing? These had classics as their origins, but the modern movies themselves were pretty awful. Chucky had some degree of prestige at some point, but when was the last time someone left a Saw sequel saying "that was a good use of my two hours"?

So, I guess I don't really get the same things out of those houses that, say, a huge fan of the movie would. Now, if there was a house based on The Shining or Halloween or....

*wishful thinking*

I thought The Thing prequel was pretty good. The Wolfman was a Universal picture, so that's a no-brainer to promote that. And the general public loves SAW, as much as you might not (and the wait times for the house proved that)

Edited August 7, 2012 by armyofrobots

[Hush]

I mean, the only point I'm making is that, Universal goes the extra mile to bring movie properties for the fans, making deals with New Line Cinema for example, I see it that way too, I never see IP houses as a negative, even if the house sucks, it is still like a treat for fans, and then they use the houses to promote their movies, they are the one of the few companies making haunted houses that can bring movies to life,

Precisely! I don't think anyone can truly say that ANY house at the event is a complete negative, be it an IP or an original. (It's only a negative if it ends up being completely sucktacular on every level possible and I don't think that's happened quite yet...)

There are many haunted venues across the country during haunt season that use characters "like" Freddy, Jason, etc. but only at Universal are you getting the actual character, not a cheap replica or knock off. Like you said, Uni is one of the very few companies that does a Halloween event that can truly bring the movies and their characters to life in a very real way.

[Blizzrock13]

I thought The Thing prequel was pretty good. The Wolfman was a Universal picture, so that's a no-brainer to promote that. And the general public loves SAW, as much as you might not (and the wait times for the house proved that)

I understand. I'm not saying that Universal is making a poor business decision in this manner. I was merely stating my personal reasons for preferring the original haunts. "Living a movie" loses a bit of its luster when the actual movie couldn't keep your interest.

[LV-426]

I guess I find myself rarely a big fan of the movies that Universal selects. I mean, obviously the New Line deal brought a lot of classics in, but all too often it just seems like they find whatever sub-par movie they're turning out in the general time frame and say "good enough."

Doomsday? The Wolfman? The Thing? These had classics as their origins, but the modern movies themselves were pretty awful. Chucky had some degree of prestige at some point, but when was the last time someone left a Saw sequel saying "that was a good use of my two hours"?

So, I guess I don't really get the same things out of those houses that, say, a huge fan of the movie would. Now, if there was a house based on The Shining or Halloween or....

*wishful thinking*

I can understand that, and, I hated Doomsday,

also C.H.U.D was the Worst movie ever made, I really cannot understand why they would want to do a movie based on that...

Cirque Du Freak was pretty bad movie, really bad actually

but the houses were way better than the movies themselves though, I mean, the houses were not great, but, they were better than the movies for me,

I still say, doing IP houses is not easy or cheap, they are really doing it for the fans, I mean, yeah, sure the ip houses bring in more crowds as well, but original houses are probably easier to do I would think, so I appreciate IP more for that as well.

and here is the thing about SAW, I know a lot of people hate saw and call it "torture porn" but

the way I See it SAW is this decade's "Jason" or "Myers"

I mean, 7 movies, back to back, it is just another Horror Icon, and, I have to say, his track is a lot better than Leatherface or Scream, Even better than Michael Myers or Freddy kruger,

for all the hate SAW gets, SAW never went to space, or Worked for the Illuminati, or went to the getto, or became a reality tv show, I mean, the big 3 icons, (jason Michael and Freddy) have some pretty awful movies, cheesy ones, SAW might be torture porn, but, I think it might be the first horror franchise that follows one story,

I am not even a huge SAW fan either, I like it, yeah, but the fact that they could keep the same story for 7 movies, keep the same actors, the same look, that gritty dirty green look, that alone counts for a lot.

SAW might not be great movies, they might be waste of time,

but Honestly I ask you, for real, have you seen all the Halloween or Friday the 13th movies? Friday the 13th 8 and 9 are beyond awful, they are horrible, Halloween 5 and 6, same thing, then you have Halloween resurrection,which is the biggest insult to the franchise, I mean they had Busta Rhymes beat up Myers LOL! and then you have Jason X in Space,

so really at the end of the day, SAW is probably the most successful horror slasher franchise, they follow a close plot and never did any of that cheesy stuff lol

well, that's the way I See it.

[boogeyman13]

like I was saying before, every other haunt in the country is original, there are hundreds of haunts all over the nation that are original, here in FL we have HOS, and there are haunts in Miami and Tampa,... Interesting discussion on IP houses removed for length

You could still do original houses, but tie it in to a movie theme, ala Ripped From the Silver Screen, but without IP's. For example, they could make up their own stories and say that these are films, forgotten in the Universal archives, that have mysteriously been brought to life in our world. There's already some precedent for this thinking in the park with Disaster!. It's not a direct movie license ride, but rather embodies the spirit of those schlocky b movies that we're all so familiar with, with a twist. So there are ways to package it within the vision of the park and still do their own thing. They just have to be a bit creative.

And Universal is one of those few places that offers both quantity AND quality. I try to hit up at least 4-5 haunted houses each year in the Chicago area, and none of them can compare. And I'm not talking little mom and pop places. I mean dedicated businesses. One of them is even at a permanent location, so they don't have to break down every November, which allows them to build more intricate sets. So while it is cool that Universal offers IP houses, and they can be good, it's not at all surprising to me that people enjoy the originals too, since it's still an experience they can't get anywhere else. There are 7-8 houses, each dedicated to a specific theme and story, and all pretty high quality. This is different than a standard haunt, which has a zombie room, and a cannibal room, and a clown room, etc., which ultimately creates a very disjointed experience. Or, if they do stick to a specific theme, if it's not one you're crazy about, then the whole experience suffers. At HHN, if there's one you don't like, then there are others you might like more, and they're all complete thoughts, and professionally put together. There's a convenience factor there coupled with the production value.

I can understand that, and, I hated Doomsday,.. Another Interesting discussion on horror films removed for length

LOL Black Mask, I would love to actually sit down and talk to you some time, because it sounds like you and I have some very different opinions on things. I love C.H.U.D.! It was pure 80's cheese. I hardly think it's the worst movie ever made, even for the 80's. Have you not seen Troll or Troll 2 ( of which not a single troll actually appears in the film)?

And the SAW franchise got TERRIBLE. The first one was a good, tight, film, but the story go so convoluted by the end it was ridiculous. The believability of the plots got really stretched thin, even by their own standards. And the twist endings! Talk about awful twists of M. Night Shyamalan proportions... I would say honestly that only its momentum of churning one out every year is what kept it alive as a franchise by then end. And I do agree with you that is was the 2000's horror "icon," much like its 80's predecessors, and much like Paranormal Activity is now (take that as you will).

I also agree with you that there were some incredible inconsistencies in quality with the 80's horror icons. But they still had their merits. Friday the 13th Part 7 is a terrible movie, but it has arguably the best character design for Zombie Jason from all the latter films, save for MAYBE FvJ (but that's really it's own beast, I would say). And Nightmare 6 (Freddy's Dead) is hilarious in its terrible, terrible campiness. And Texas Chainsaw Massacre has never really gotten a fair shake. Every sequel/prequel/remake is arguably them just retelling the first story again with the same story beats.

IP houses might be good for fans of the franchises, but for grizzled, caustic horror fans like myself, they don't hold anything new or exciting. As I've stated multiple times, if I want to see Freddy kill someone, or someone get diced up in one of Jigsaw's traps, I need only put a Blu-ray on. Or, I can go to one of my local haunts. There's always a Freddy or a Myers or Jason running around (I suspect illegally ). One of the ones I used to frequent even has a re-recreation of the TCM remake at the end, complete with sheets on clothes lines and a 70's police car. If I'm going to fly to another region, I want a new experience. I've seen so many films that retread the same story beats, kills, characters, origins, etc., that when I see it again, even in person, it's still nothing new, and consequently not exciting. Even if it's designed and executed beautifully, it's still a repeat, and not even really re-packaged all that differently. So, given that perspective, I could argue that while they may be a good service to fans of the IP, they are ultimately a disservice to fans of the genre. For example, I am so burnt out on zombie stories (I've seen, read, played, and listened to a LOT of them), that walking through a "best of" house of the first two seasons of TWD really does not sound that appealing. Will I still go through it? Absolutely. I wouldn't consider myself a fan of the genre if I didn't. But am I at all excited about that house? Not particularly. It doesn't sound like it'll be anything that I haven't already seen a multitude of times. I'm really hoping that I'm wrong, and I'll come out really liking it, but my expectations are low.

Sorry for the REALLY long post. You just brought up some very excellent talking points.

[armyofrobots]

I understand. I'm not saying that Universal is making a poor business decision in this manner. I was merely stating my personal reasons for preferring the original haunts. "Living a movie" loses a bit of its luster when the actual movie couldn't keep your interest.

nah, I hear ya. I do like IP houses just as much as originals. And I think there are very few houses where we "lived the movie" instead of taking a property and spinning them on their own to fit it's own story line. I don't have the wherewithal to defend that statement, though. Hahaha.