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I would love to see Bloody Mary come back, and you know how rare it is for me to want an icon return, but mostly because I would like the chance to play her. Not as Mary Agana, because I think I'm too old to play her in that form, but as the actual Bloody Mary.

I don't think we'll see the old icons again, and if we do, it will be a long, long time, and do we really want them back? I want new ideas, and the icons have all had at least 2 years each now, and that's enough. The FR audio pretty much says it all: What was once tradition will forever be changed; I created them; The patiently wait for the final piece; They have completed their task. Yeah, we're going bye-bye.

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I would love to see Bloody Mary come back, and you know how rare it is for me to want an icon return, but mostly because I would like the chance to play her. Not as Mary Agana, because I think I'm too old to play her in that form, but as the actual Bloody Mary.

I don't think we'll see the old icons again, and if we do, it will be a long, long time, and do we really want them back? I want new ideas, and the icons have all had at least 2 years each now, and that's enough. The FR audio pretty much says it all: What was once tradition will forever be changed; I created them; The patiently wait for the final piece; They have completed their task. Yeah, we're going bye-bye.

True, but the crowd around Jack & Chance's tent is always HUGE!

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True, but the crowd around Jack & Chance's tent is always HUGE!

So design a NEW character that will warrant that kind of attention. I'm glad A&D has recognized that they've relied on the 2000-2003 icons for too long (Storyteller & Usher... as much as I enjoy them, yeah...) At this point, we need some amazing NEW icons - basically, everything they did with Bloody Mary, but with a better house and a character that they control the rights to. BM was pretty much the perfect execution of an icon, which is why I miss her dearly (not to mention she's the only truly frightening icon who can get into your space even when you're not at the event).

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I still don't understand the whole "rights" issue to BM, and really had no idea when they used her that they had to pay for her rights (or did they?) Such a shame, she was my favorite icon, director being 2nd, and I think she's the only one that warrants a return of any sort.

Yes, Jack and Chance's tent is always busy, but that doesn't mean they should be brought back. I was sick of Jack a couple of years ago; who knew I'd end up working side by side with him.

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I still don't understand the whole "rights" issue to BM, and really had no idea when they used her that they had to pay for her rights (or did they?) Such a shame, she was my favorite icon, director being 2nd, and I think she's the only one that warrants a return of any sort.

Yes, Jack and Chance's tent is always busy, but that doesn't mean they should be brought back. I was sick of Jack a couple of years ago; who knew I'd end up working side by side with him.

Some individual in the horror make-up business obtained a copyright for Bloody Mary for any sort of horror type event (make-up, haunt, or otherwise) some time ago. Bobbie Wiener, or something similar, I think his name was. Universal wanted to use the Bloody Mary character for a HHN event - so they bought the temporary rights from this Bobbie Wiener, who I think also designed Bloody Mary's makeup in 08. Now Universal does not have the rights to use the Bloody Mary character freely, despite her massive presence in 2008 and the fact that they created her personality, image, and backstory - hence no Mary audio or appearance in Shadows of the Past in 2009 or any appearance this year outside of her map in Hallow'd Past.

Mary had everything an icon should have. It began with an elaborate, engaging backstory that is fully explored and makes some semblance of sense, all delievered through a clever website leading up to the full reveal of the event. At that point, we're treated to a marketing barrage of her image and character. The character itself is creepy and interesting, and is able to get to get into our space even when we're not at the event - pretty much any time we're near a mirror, Mary has the potential to be there. Every billboard, print ad, radio ad online banner, and Burger King cup included her unearthly gaze. Moreover, an incredibly unsettling commercial was created that struck unease or even true fear into all who saw it. Expectations were high - at the event itself, we were treated to an enormous mirror at the entrance with Mary ushering us in, followed by massive projector set up around the park displaying her image taunting us and beckoning us further into her alternate reality. Plenty of cool merchandise also featured her image. Finally, she had the Reflections of Fear house in the far reaches of the park - this is the one place they stumbled, as they attempted to convey the dread and fear of the backstory but botched it by giving Mary assistants (blunting her effectiveness as a dark entity) and a baffling lack of mirrors (no mirror maze for Mary was a crime).

So with the exception of that house quality, Mary was an incredible icon, and my favorite to date. (For the record, Jack is my second favorite, and The Caretaker my third.) Notice that those three icons all had everything Mary had, except an actual quality house to real send the effectiveness home. The Usher was a good idea, but lacked a truly memorable visage (he needed to be far more corpse-like in order to be truly frightening in any way), as well as absolutely no merchandise or advertising - which is a good two thirds of the selling point for an icon. Storyteller is both creepy and charismatic, and I like the idea of her - but she was shoehorned into her event year and lacked a true place in Terra Cruentes (resulting in a very flimsy backstory), despite her quality advertising and merchandise. The Director had great advertising, merchandise, charisma, and backstory - but, and this is just my observation as I never attended in 03, but it felt like he was a bit out of place in Islands of Adventure. The Director seems like the type of character that would be better grounded in gritty realism (after all, he has very little to no supernatural ties in his murders) then placed in the fantastical world of Islands of Adventure.

Long story short, Universal has the template to create an effective, memorable icon, which was used for Jack, Mary, & Caretaker, came close with Director & Storyteller, but flubbed with The Usher and FEAR. Give us another icon that crowds will swarm when they see him/her, and that all of us will be super excited to see come the next reunion year.

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Some individual in the horror make-up business obtained a copyright for Bloody Mary for any sort of horror type event (make-up, haunt, or otherwise) some time ago. Bobbie Wiener, or something similar, I think his name was. Universal wanted to use the Bloody Mary character for a HHN event - so they bought the temporary rights from this Bobbie Wiener, who I think also designed Bloody Mary's makeup in 08. Now Universal does not have the rights to use the Bloody Mary character freely, despite her massive presence in 2008 and the fact that they created her personality, image, and backstory - hence no Mary audio or appearance in Shadows of the Past in 2009 or any appearance this year outside of her map in Hallow'd Past.

Mary had everything an icon should have. It began with an elaborate, engaging backstory that is fully explored and makes some semblance of sense, all delievered through a clever website leading up to the full reveal of the event. At that point, we're treated to a marketing barrage of her image and character. The character itself is creepy and interesting, and is able to get to get into our space even when we're not at the event - pretty much any time we're near a mirror, Mary has the potential to be there. Every billboard, print ad, radio ad online banner, and Burger King cup included her unearthly gaze. Moreover, an incredibly unsettling commercial was created that struck unease or even true fear into all who saw it. Expectations were high - at the event itself, we were treated to an enormous mirror at the entrance with Mary ushering us in, followed by massive projector set up around the park displaying her image taunting us and beckoning us further into her alternate reality. Plenty of cool merchandise also featured her image. Finally, she had the Reflections of Fear house in the far reaches of the park - this is the one place they stumbled, as they attempted to convey the dread and fear of the backstory but botched it by giving Mary assistants (blunting her effectiveness as a dark entity) and a baffling lack of mirrors (no mirror maze for Mary was a crime).

So with the exception of that house quality, Mary was an incredible icon, and my favorite to date. (For the record, Jack is my second favorite, and The Caretaker my third.) Notice that those three icons all had everything Mary had, except an actual quality house to real send the effectiveness home. The Usher was a good idea, but lacked a truly memorable visage (he needed to be far more corpse-like in order to be truly frightening in any way), as well as absolutely no merchandise or advertising - which is a good two thirds of the selling point for an icon. Storyteller is both creepy and charismatic, and I like the idea of her - but she was shoehorned into her event year and lacked a true place in Terra Cruentes (resulting in a very flimsy backstory), despite her quality advertising and merchandise. The Director had great advertising, merchandise, charisma, and backstory - but, and this is just my observation as I never attended in 03, but it felt like he was a bit out of place in Islands of Adventure. The Director seems like the type of character that would be better grounded in gritty realism (after all, he has very little to no supernatural ties in his murders) then placed in the fantastical world of Islands of Adventure.

Long story short, Universal has the template to create an effective, memorable icon, which was used for Jack, Mary, & Caretaker, came close with Director & Storyteller, but flubbed with The Usher and FEAR. Give us another icon that crowds will swarm when they see him/her, and that all of us will be super excited to see come the next reunion year.

Thank you so much for the explanation, I had heard about it before, but I was never sure on what happened, I'm sorry for this but, that is Bullshit, sorry, but it is, did she copyright the name? since BM was made by Uni, They couldn't just called her Dr. Mary Agana? showed her face cut but have her dressed as a doctor?

and I Know the general public would think she is a new icon, or be confused, but I rather have her like that than nothing at all,

and I agree, She is the best Icon that Uni has come up with, her story and the site before the event had me very interested, and she is very scary, I think she is the only Icon that really scared me, even just by looking at her picture. I would be very, very happy if she came back next year, Not as the main Icon, but like Cindy, with a better house.

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So with the exception of that house quality, Mary was an incredible icon, and my favorite to date. (For the record, Jack is my second favorite, and The Caretaker my third.) Notice that those three icons all had everything Mary had, except an actual quality house to real send the effectiveness home.

Are you saying that Caretaker didn't have an effective house? What was Screamhouse then? Never forget the amazingness that was the Caine Manor.

(And yes, I'm really defensive of that house.)

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Are you saying that Caretaker didn't have an effective house? What was Screamhouse then? Never forget the amazingness that was the Caine Manor.

(And yes, I'm really defensive of that house.)

No, no - I'm saying that Jack and Caretaker had great houses to accompany their years, as opposed to Mary who did not. From what I've seen of the Art of the Scare DVD, Screamhouse looked excellent, and Jack's FEARhouse looked quite well done as well.

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I was watching Freddy vs. Jason earlier and there was a part in the movie where Freddy says the only thing that you have to fear is fear himself. I thought that was pretty cool when he said that. Made me think of HHN XX almost immediately..:)

Yeah I Love that movie so Much, it really is my favorite movie, On a funny note, One of the songs from the movie was used in 07' Carnival of Carnage, The song that was playing at the entrance of the park, is from that movie, The name of the song is Is It ever Over? from the freddy Vs Jason Original score

Well, The event is over, Overall this year was Amazing!! Very good memories, the actors were just incredible. I think I might do a review but just over the whole experience I had,

tomorrow hopefully I will make it to the group picture. Halloween day, I'll might be dressing like the Clockwork Orange movie, but just a white shirt, hat, so if you see a guy in white with a black hat, is me, I just hope I'm the only one :lol:

Edited by black7mask
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Is Mike Aiello still going to be a part of HHN just not the Bill and Ted show anymore or is he leaving HHN all together??? I was reading his post on facebook about it but didn't really understand. Anyone know...?

He is (essentially) moving into the type of role JMR had. Mike will still be a massive part of HHN, it is just that Bill and Ted will not be his primary focus anymore.

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RIP Icons............ :(

2000-2010

Jack Schmidt: You always knew how to make us scream with laughter

Dr. Albert Caine: Thanks for reminding us that our time had come

Paulo Ravinski: You oughta be in Pictures..... thanks for letting us get a taste of hollywood...

Elsa Strict: Once upon a time, there was a storyteller who let us explore the darker side of fables and tales...

Julian Browning: Tickets please....... Hopefully they will leave the Universal Palace alone now

and FEAR: Ehh...... well, cool lantern I guess??

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well....

uh...

there's more than just that.

Well, I mean, obviously there's her mannequin in the Secrets of the Past VIP museum - and "Dr. Agana" is mentioned in the Psychoscareapy text game, as well as a debated appearance of her as the doctor in the Electroshock Therapy room/Padded finale... but other than that...

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No, no - I'm saying that Jack and Caretaker had great houses to accompany their years, as opposed to Mary who did not. From what I've seen of the Art of the Scare DVD, Screamhouse looked excellent, and Jack's FEARhouse looked quite well done as well.

Screamhouse was one of the best houses HHN has ever done, and I don't say that lightly. It was truly awesome (which is why they revisited two more times). All-NIte Die-In for The Director was also amazing!!! Ahhhh.... memories.

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Guest FL Universal Jax

Screamhouse was one of the best houses HHN has ever done, and I don't say that lightly. It was truly awesome (which is why they revisited two more times). All-NIte Die-In for The Director was also amazing!!! Ahhhh.... memories.

Don't worry. All of these houses will be great someday as well. It's human nature.

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Don't worry. All of these houses will be great someday as well. It's human nature.

While I understand your point, that's not what's going on here. I loved those houses the first time I went through them and I love them now, along with many other favorites through the years (Universal Classic Monster Mania, Castle Vampyr, Body Collectors, Scary Tales, The Wolfman). However, no amount of time passing will change how I feel about others. Creatures was crap in 2008 and it's still crap now. No amount of nostalgia will ever make me pine for the The Disorientorium or The Spawning either :rolleyes: I already know I'll look back on this year and fondly remember Hallow'd Past, Legendary Truth, and Hades.

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