Dr. Jimmy
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We now have a brand new generic place holder site! Included are images from past years as always, and they probably don't mean anything specific, but...
We have no pictures of past Icons, that's a little odd isn't it? Perhaps they didn't want to steal the thunder from the Icons when they appear in the upcoming HHN XX site? Or maybe they would be afraid we might try to read too much into their appearance if they did so now?
I'm going to read too much into what they have put up anyway! It's what I do.
We have two "sub-Icons", first the demon Nightmare who greeted our entry into either Island of Immortal Souls in 2002 or Immortal Island in 2003, or was he at both? I honestly can't recall, could someone please refresh my memory on this point?
Secondly we have Eelmouth, the Royal Herald of the Terra Queen from 2005.
Also there is the entranceway to the 2008 scarezone Fractured Tales and the facade to the Caretaker's ScreamHouse.
All of these could in fact actually appear at HHN XX as it is expected to be a "reunion year" especially as The Caretaker, Cindy, a Pumpkin-Head and Eelmouth all were in the Shadows of the Past scarezone last year.
More interesting is the absence of a "Behind the Screams" archive. I can think of several reasons for this.
It could simply be that they did not have time to update the archives with a new drawer for 2009 containing clickable stuff.
Or since this temporary site has appeared later than in past years due to all the Harry Potter preparations, they may have simply not bothered with the archives as it would only be up for a couple of weeks anyway.
But, what I really hope is that as HHN XX is to be a nostalgic trip back through the years and fears of the event in celebration of its 20th anniversary, the new teaser site which will begin tantalizing us most likely in early July (June 18? June 19? seriously? More likely July 1st!) will be an all new, completely revised archive crafted in an entirely new and different way.
Thus we would see a new perspective on the HHN events of the past, with new and different clues as to how they fit in with this year's event slowly unfold over the weeks of July and August.
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Hmmmmmm, no archive this year. Maybe because as it's expected to be a reunion year the archive will be the main site as in 2006?
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Beware of things that go BUMP in the night.
Laz, if I stay up all night waiting for something to BUMP and it doesn't, then I will sic BOB on you!
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I found the telephone conference where Roddy talked about the Director and Usher...
http://www.facebook.com/#!/video/video.php?v=10100212318079681
15:25 mark
This agruement cant officially die now
That's kind of funny because the "argument" wasn't even alive to begin with, as I basically agreed with you all along. I brought this all up to show why the Usher would most likely get his own house, which may include a scene with Kong.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt the director still alive? So if he is still alive how will he be part of a house with Julian in?
I also have to do some research but I think Roddy said last yr in a phone conference about the director and usher wont work together.. but I might be wrong.
My point largely was that they would be a bad mix. I merely gave the only scenario I could imagine where the two concepts might have the least difficulty being presented together.
However I never assumed the fact that Julian is some sort of ghost/undead like Jack and Bloody Mary would automatically mean that he and the Director could never appear together.
I'm not entirely certain, but I believe Paulo may be the only one of the Icons with no supernatural nature whatsoever. Weird eyes notwithstanding. Although we know way too little about the Storyteller to really know for sure.
That being said, non-supernatural characters and supernatural characters get used together all the time. There are other far more basic reasons of theme, style and presentation that make this a bad fit.
For example, Dracula and Wolfman work well together (both supernatural). Dracula and Sherlock Holmes (one supernatural one not) would work well together. Dracula and Michael Myers (both supernatural, sort of) would not work.
Thus Julian and Paulo work best in separate houses and would be an awkward fit at best. As for Roddy, I fear that the current A&D team may not respect all of his wishes in these matters.
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But Universal did'nt bought the rights in 1976. Instead they proved in the courts that King Kong was public domain so they could do their remake. Google up Universal vs Nintendo and you'll see what I mean.
It's actually a lot more complicated than that. Marian C. Cooper had been in a dispute with RKO for years over the rights to Kong which he as the creator of the ape claimed were his alone.
Universal had a verbal agreement with RKO to remake King Kong. Dino de Laurentiis bought the remake rights from RKO and Universal sued RKO. RKO counter-sued Universal, then de Larurentiis sued Universal.
Universal discovered that the novel King Kong based on the original screenplay but published a year ealier than the film was released had lapsed into public domain. They claimed they could film an adaptation of that book without infringing on RKO's copyright or deal with de Laurentiis.
Richard Cooper, the heir of the late Merian C. Coopper then sued RKO.
The judge found that:
1. RKO only held the rights to the two films King Kong and Son of Kong they had released in the 1930's.
2. The novel was in public domain and Universal could adapt it into a film if they wished.
3. Richard Cooper owned all other rights to the name and character of King Kong.
Universal had already made an out-of-court settlement with de Laurentiis for part of the profits of his King Kong movie, and so did not make a King Kong movie at that time.
Then in December of this same year (1976) Universal did in fact purchase all rights to King Kong except book and periodical rights from Richard Cooper.
Thus in 1982 they felt they had a claim against Nintendo over Donkey Kong, but in the course of their lawsuit they (that is their lawyers) acted in bad faith and the court ruled in favor of Nintendo. This was also largely due to the court's opinion that the public would hardly mistake Donkey Kong for King Kong and did not actually infringe on what copyrights Universal held.
But later, in 1986 de Laurentiis needed to receive Universal's permission to film a second Kong film.
At no time did Universal ever "prove" that King Kong was in the public domain.
All of this of course stays away from HHN 2010 speculation, but being a pedantic old Professor, I have a compulsion to correct inaccurate history. I apologize for the off-topic lapse.
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The Usher only really loved the movies that played in the UPT and that would just be a re-make of SS.
There has to be more movies than those in SS that has played at the UPT over its dark history though.
The thing is though we dont know what yr the theater closed its doors (I think).. We know it open its doors last yr.
Well, if Silver Screams last year represented only those movie which played at the Universal Palace Theater that Julian liked, that would mean that the UPT only closed sometime after January of 2009, as that was when My Bloody Valentine 3D first played!
It was clearly the remake and not the original My Bloody Valentine in the house as there were no hospital scenes in the original and there were such scenes in the remake.
Furthermore, The Strangers was a 2008 film.
It was clearly implied that the theater closed many years before, although an exact date was never given. A date was given for the opening: 1922.
The Usher was definitely a part of the Shadows of the Past scarezone last year, which seemed a bit odd as he was not yet part of HHN's past, but as the event was still ongoing, he was a part of its then present.
The only explanation would be that Julian would return this year, when he would indeed be a part of the History of HHN.
So it is reasonable to expect a house for Julian, and as Charles and many others have pointed out he would not work well in a house with the Director.
I would expect that there would only be one house showing many scenes from different movies a la ANDI and Silver Screams. Two such houses would be redundant. Thus if they do such a house I hope it is Julian's new house perhaps called Silver Screams 2. There we should see scenes from some of the other films Julian has liked, whether they ever played at the UPT or not. A very good guess would be that such films would be those which Universal has the rights to!
This would of course free up the Director to show his own work, not at an ANDI, but as someone suggested on the set of his latest film in which we may get to play a part.
But, if they are planning to play Icons against each other, and do put the Director and Usher together against our judgment, then I don't think the house will be scenes from films at all. The only way these characters could work at all, and even then I have doubts, is if they are in a house in heated conflict with each other.
For example, Julian as a homicidally fanatical devotee of great classic motion pictures would likely regard Paulo's "dirty little snuff films" as near pornography, and consider Ravinski to be nothing more than a perpetrator of "Crimes against Cinema". Ravinski would consider that the very sort of reaction that has kept his "genius" from being realized and would respond violently.
Thus they would hate each other desperately. If they did share a house, expect to see a war. Perhaps Julian would marshal classic film characters "Ripped from the Silver Screen" against Paulo's cast of dismembered zombie victims, or maybe even characters from "less worthy" "torture porn" type films.
Even then, I really don't expect this to mix very well.
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Well Universal didn't release King Kong first... RKO did so it's not really a Universal Horror Icon but we got the rights so I can see that happening maybe use the furry arms and Kong's head of Kong from Kongfrontation if they didn't sell it... but i can see that maybe go on the ship that the crew went to Skull Island and you can see the islanders that invaded the ship then going on skull island and then lastly to the empire state building seeing Kong one last time.
Exactly, Although RKO released the first film and Paramount released the Dino De Laurentiis version, ("You male chauvinist pig ape!") Universal has claimed copyright on the big guy ever since they bought the rights from Richard Cooper in 1976.
They have had mixed success in defending these rights, De Laurentiis won a lawsuit and was able to go ahead with his first film, but then had to get permission from Universal when he shot King Kong Lives in 1986. Universal lost its lawsuit against Nintendo over Donkey Kong.
However, Universal has maintained those rights fairly well now for over two decades with their park attractions and movies, and many people associate Kong exclusively with Universal as the first experience they had with the ape was on Kongfrontation.
I have very fond memories of that ride myself, and first rode it in 1991 while attending Fright Nights. I also remember when Darkman showed up on the ride at HHN in 1992, and the Nightmare Creatures (house? scarezone? it was a bit of both!) about 10 or 11 years ago where you walked through the streets of New York with Kong above you.
A Kong house would logically follow the pattern you gave, but I did not mean that this would necessarily be a Kong house even if the Observation Deck was a scene with Kong in it.
I dont think they would make a King Kong house. And if they did, it wouldve been used last year. When the chad posted the codenames up on his site, I immediately commented on it saying I thought Observation Deck would be something related to a boat or a big monument like the Empire State Building. Another place were they have observation decks is in big operation rooms where doctors observe from above while an operation is being done. That could mean the house could also be some type of Asylum/Hospital.
Rather, I think that if they used Kong they would include him a house devoted to classic films. After all, we have been speculating that various Icons from recent years would all have their own houses. Although I would prefer The Director to have a house about his own demented film career, Julian Browning is merely an Usher in a grand cinematic palace. Just the sort of theater to show King Kong, among other great movies I would think. That plus Universal having the rights, seems to me to be a perfect fit.
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It has been suggested that "Observation Deck" may not refer to a ship but rather to a tall building or skyscraper.
We know that HHN XX will be a reunion year and have also guessed that it will include a lot of HHN history as well as the "history of Universal horror" as Charles suggested.
If so, is there in the history of Universal horror a franchise that is associated with a skyscraper? Of course there is!
Thus this year, we may very well see the return of one of the greatest Icons of Universal Horror, who has been long absent from Universal Studios Orlando.
The 8th Wonder of the World!
KONG!!!
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oh, i wish USA won the world cup, probably wont happen, but i wish...
Who are you rooting for Dr. Jimmy?
I support the USA and England.
I support England unless they are playing the USA.
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The music from The Shining mentioned earlier by Dinah is an arrangement of the medieval Dies Irae (Day of Wrath) a Gregorian chant about the Final Judgment of God upon the wicked. "Day of Wrath on that Day the World will be reduced to ashes."
It is quite likely that on that Day some people may find themselves in "Hades".
More to the point, many may not realize this, but Dante included many Greek Mythological figures and ideas about Hades in his Christian Hell in The Inferno. Including the River Styx, The guard dog Cerberus, and interesting enough the Gorgon, Medusa!
The house in question may in fact be an adaptation of Dante's Inferno, rather than one devoted only to Greek Mythology. And even if it is strictly Greek, it could also be a representation of Hades.
This would make it a follow-up to previous "Hell Houses" such as the original Doomsday from 1999 and Dark Torment from 2000.
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I'm afraid I won't be posting quite as often for the next month or so due to a certain major international sporting event. I will check in in between matches.
Please don't feel slighted, well, this video expresses my feelings better than I can:
I should add that although I usually do so, I will NOT be supporting England on Saturday.
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Well, that's another fine myth you got us into!
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I was discussing the idea of Greek Mythology being used in houses, with my boyfriend, and we both agreed on one question. Wouldn't that kind of be an insult to culture in a way? *shruggs*
I don't think HHN could insult Greek culture any more than countless others already have, from Wonder Woman and Shazam! comics, to the Percy Jackson books and movie, to Ray Harryhausen movies and the Clash of the Titans remake, to video games and let's not forget the FTD florist in his gold lame tights!
Then of course there's this guy in his Halloween costume as Cerberus:
Grrrr!!! I guard the pits of Hades!!!
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How can greek mythology be scary? I'm sorry but if this whole event is based around greek mythology i might be dissapointed. Let's face it thats not very halloweeny and if the icons are "gods" are they gonna still look the same or will jack be wearing a toga? Maybe were reading into this too much? idk
I really don't think we will have the entire event based on Greek Mythology. All we know is two rooms in one house. We don't even know for sure if the rest of that house will be Greek. It could be for example one part of a history of horror through the ages showing how the roots of evil have grown out through time, branching out in different directions to bear sinister fruit.
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Yes I'm aware the codes aren't for the houses specifically but there still codes non the less. But yeah I'm done this isn't going anywhere. Plus you mentioned Dr. Raymond Holmes Inc. so I'm really out now.
I can quite understand why the mere mention of that dubious fellow would cause you to bail. Especially after the real Charles told us exactly who he was certain was using his name in vain.
But, I am troubled by a couple of things. First, back at that time every rumor flying about said "10 houses" except for that one weird post which said 8 houses. Then TJ confirmed 8 houses after all.
And now Hades? That "Hades" would pop up twice like this with no connection at all would seem to be a coincidence beyond probability. Furthermore "Observation Deck" also fits in tightly with one of that person's clues, but not with any other person's!
So I have to wonder, just who was that guy anyway? Was he the person Charles said, or somebody worse?
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I think the whole Greek thing is a stretch. Every year since the permits have been discovered they've given codes to throw us off. Yes most of the codes are somewhat related to the house that took place in that venue. But this year (of all years) is so black and white. We have 8 icons... so there for we will have 8 houses. I'm not trying to be a kill joy but it's something we go through every year.
Well actually, it was in 2008 that we, or rather I should say, Chad first got the actual house names from the permits and posted them online.
The only time we ever got code-names for the houses was last year.
This year the permits do not even seem to have any code-names, and if there are any they were blocked by Potter's Law.
What Chad has now uncovered are not house names nor code names for houses, bur specific descriptions of specific rooms or scenes in some of the houses. These include some generic terms like "facade" but also some tantalizing descriptions indeed. As Jeramy posted above these are not likely to be encoded because they never thought we would ever see them, they are rather far more likely to be exactly what they appear to be.
Which leads me to this: Greek Mythology aside, what sort of house would contain a Museum Hallway? A Museum of Horror was often a house in early years of HHN. What house would contain both a Vortex and the Rat Lady? Dungeon of Terror perhaps? And most puzzlingly what sort of house would have an observation deck? The old Frightanic house from 1998?
The more I ponder these the more I realize how closely this information fits in with what that strange trollish Dr. Raymond Holmes Inc. posted a while ago. Maybe that wasn't "you know who" as we all thought then after all!
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Talking about the scarezone from last year , other than the main icons of HHN there were I think two non iconic characters. One of them was a pumpkin head type creature and I cant really remember the other one, but they might have something to do with the non icon houses this year. Just a thought.
There was a Body Collector, we found out in 2008 that the Body Collectors were active in Victorian London, what if they were active in Ancient times?
Or, what if the roots of our icons run truly very very deep, and they are somehow twisted incarnations of ancient gods and figures of myth? A dark pantheon, so to speak?
If so Jack could = Dionysus the trickster god, and Eddie = Ares god of war.
The Caretaker and Cindy could be a modern version of the myth of Hades and Persephone.
The Director could be a dark Apollo and the Usher an evil Hermes.
The Storyteller might be a twisted version of Athena goddess of wisdom, or even one of the three fates.
And the there's Bloody Mary who is "safe" when she is only seen in a mirror but becomes deadly when she emerges from it. Medusa?
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I just wanna ask I question to everyone. You guys do remember a scarezone that popped up on the final weekend of the event right? And you do remember the characters involved with that scarezone right?
Absolutely, and I think most of us have been expecting a return of those characters in a, dare I say, rather Iconic reunion year.
Of course, the past Icons for whom myths and legends are most closely related and might play a part in their house or houses are two who did not appear at Shadows of the Past, namely the Storyteller and Bloody Mary. But if they do, then I could see myths as part of their whole "stories and legends" domain.
In fact Greek myths could even be incorporated into a new Scary Tales scenario, although that might be stretching it.
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From what I've heard, which could be wrong, Universal isn't looking to adapt any outside properties this year, but intends to use their own characters - which of course are free.
We had been asking about the Root of all Evil before, we should always remember that the Bible says what that is: "the love of money".
One nice thing about Greek myths is that they are Public Domain and are completely free for use.
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It's somewhat interesting with these new clues to look back at old speculations. For example back in early 2008 we had all heard rumors about a female icon "Jill" who would rule over a world of urban legends, fables and nightmares. This was because of such a proposed scenario in a survey from Universal.
In another site's spec thread (as this site had not yet been born!) C_D suggested an evil sandman/boogeyman as an icon for a nightmare themed year. I have posted the picture in a post above. This inspired me to start a thread devoted to Nightmares on that other forum. Now that forum seems to be gone for good and we are all here on a site devoted to Nightmares!
Oddly enough some of that rumor proved true after all as 2008 did have a female icon, Bloody Mary, who did have her own "world" made up of urban legends, fables, legends, fairy tales, and yes, nightmares.
In early 2009 on that same other site many of us were speculating wildly about what the only clue we had "CLASSIC" could mean. I goofed on the definition of classic to mean of or pertaining to ancient Greece and Rome with a rather silly speculation about Greek Mythology. I included a picture of the Greek gods which I will not post here as the somewhat blatant nudity offended a few people back then. (They were only clay figurines, and that's how the Greek gods dressed, or rather undressed, but nevermind.)
Now it appears that they will be using Greek myth in at least one house this year!
Could it be that somebody at A&D reads these sites and uses some of the ideas we throw out in wild speculation? I hope so, because as many have said, often our ideas are rather good and sometimes seem better than what is actually realized.
SO let's keep posting our best ideas! Maybe somebody is reading them and someday we will be able to experience our own nightmare at HHN brought to life!
Better yet, maybe some of our younger people will someday join A&D themselves and bring their nightmares with them!
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Perhaps not the frat boys, but maybe Grecian heroes in little more than a short toga...
Sorry, the chauvenist in me got loose.
In all seriousness, the Greek god of sleep and dreams (nightmares?) was Hypnos. Could he be the 'root' we've been wondering about?
Mae
What about Morpheus? You know, this guy:
It seems to me Bryan once posted this picture as a possible HHN icon about two years ago...
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Greek Mythology house? Wasn't that a joke I put in another spec thread "somewhere else" over a year ago? All I can say then is:
RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!!
Also if it is a Greek House, will we see a return of the Frat Boys?
PS Does this revelation now give credence to that mysterious Dr. Raymond Holmes Inc. list of clues??? Remember, one of his clues for a house was "Hades is waiting".
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The World Cup starts this Friday! Here are some videos in its honor:
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I remember seeing her perform on Broadway in 1998 in the original cast of Ragtime. She has been in Musical Theater her entire life!