HHN 23 Discussion

[LV-426]

I have a strange hunch all the Jack references this year are poising him to come back next year. Honestly.. even though I think he has been over used... I'd kill to get him back and have TWD go away.

I am sure they will make HHN 24 all IP again probably, but I would gladly welcome Jack back as the icon and as a scarezone with him in it.

I've always loved Jack, I know he is hated but I never had any problems with him, I've always liked him, so if he comes back I would be really happy to see that

[JDW]

2007 was mostly IPs (Freddy, Jason, Leatherface, The Thing, and Dead Silence) at yet he was the Ringmaster. It's been 6 years since he was involved in any major way. I could stand him coming back at this point (Granted, if I had my choice, I would choose The Caretaker, The Director, or the Terra Queen.)

In 2009 he showed up in the Horror Wood Die-in video.... and then appeared in 2010.

In grown evil they played a bunch of Silent Hill music and then last year we got a Silent Hill house. So I mean they do hint at times.

[soapbox]

It may be wishful thinking as I just think the zombie craze is jumping the shark... When it becomes common for Granparents to buy the zombie survival handbook for little Johnny en masse... It's peaking.

Aside from my extreme issue in the incongruites behind the science of zombies, the show is not good. People in the show are constantly making decisions that not only are grevious and illogical... but seem to only serve to facilitate cheap scares. I blame most of that on firing the original director. Who was an amazing director and is close friends most all the main characters. (Just an FYI AMC is a horrible company that hates the fans and actors... all they care about is making money).

Regardless... We were beat to death with TWD this year. Every scare zone, a high budget house, and every 3 minutes the main theme is played... In between other TWD songs. And you know what? I think they surprisingly pulled it off... KUDOS! The houses were amazing (on the whole), the sets were faithful to the show, and the zombies were done as best as they could. Great! Now lets move on.

I have been spending the last few months reading (well mostly listening to audio books at work) everything H.P. Lovecraft has done. I was one of those people who saw Cthulhu and went "Eh". But that is such a small part of the massive and awesome body of work that he has produced. Practically all horror has ripped off or borrowed from his work. So why not raise the intellegence bar a bit and encourage some people to read. Make a H.P. Lovecraft based event. If you can't come up enough material... you aren't trying very hard.

Or how about a horror writer icon whos writings come to life? Then have houses based on the heavy hitters in the literary horror genre?

Do a house each: Lovecraft, King (if he would let them), Poe, Barker, Matheson, Straub, Lansdale (OH! Bubba Ho Tep comedy house!), Koontz....or just make some up for original houses. The A&D team are amazing writers... loosen that chain a bit and let them do what they do best...Create!

I know IPs are money makers and I'm not proposing Universal eliminate them... If anything this year proved that they can be truly amazing. But c'mon their are better ways to go about it than a flash in the pan, highly inconsistent TV show.

[/soapbox]

[Legacy]

2007 was mostly IPs (Freddy, Jason, Leatherface, The Thing, and Dead Silence) at yet he was the Ringmaster. It's been 6 years since he was involved in any major way. I could stand him coming back at this point (Granted, if I had my choice, I would choose The Caretaker, The Director, or the Terra Queen.)

In 2009 he showed up in the Horror Wood Die-in video.... and then appeared in 2010.

In grown evil they played a bunch of Silent Hill music and then last year we got a Silent Hill house. So I mean they do hint at times.

[soapbox]

It may be wishful thinking as I just think the zombie craze is jumping the shark... When it becomes common for Granparents to buy the zombie survival handbook for little Johnny en masse... It's peaking.

Aside from my extreme issue in the incongruites behind the science of zombies, the show is not good. People in the show are constantly making decisions that not only are grevious and illogical... but seem to only serve to facilitate cheap scares. I blame most of that on firing the original director. Who was an amazing director and is close friends most all the main characters. (Just an FYI AMC is a horrible company that hates the fans and actors... all they care about is making money).

Regardless... We were beat to death with TWD this year. Every scare zone, a high budget house, and every 3 minutes the main theme is played... In between other TWD songs. And you know what? I think they surprisingly pulled it off... KUDOS! The houses were amazing (on the whole), the sets were faithful to the show, and the zombies were done as best as they could. Great! Now lets move on.

I have been spending the last few months reading (well mostly listening to audio books at work) everything H.P. Lovecraft has done. I was one of those people who saw Cthulhu and went "Eh". But that is such a small part of the massive and awesome body of work that he has produced. Practically all horror has ripped off or borrowed from his work. So why not raise the intellegence bar a bit and encourage some people to read. Make a H.P. Lovecraft based event. If you can't come up enough material... you aren't trying very hard.

Or how about a horror writer icon whos writings come to life? Then have houses based on the heavy hitters in the literary horror genre?

Do a house each: Lovecraft, King (if he would let them), Poe, Barker, Matheson, Straub, Lansdale (OH! Bubba Ho Tep comedy house!), Koontz....or just make some up for original houses. The A&D team are amazing writers... loosen that chain a bit and let them do what they do best...Create!

I know IPs are money makers and I'm not proposing Universal eliminate them... If anything this year proved that they can be truly amazing. But c'mon their are better ways to go about it than a flash in the pan, highly inconsistent TV show.

[/soapbox]

Really, Jeramy?

[JDW]

heh interesting hadn't seen that... Mine was a writer but I like the Librarian idea

and mine are all straight up horror writers... same concept though

... And how did I forget Ray bradbury's Something Wicked/ The Halloween Tree!?!

Great minds think alike I guess.

I remember talking about a literary concept before.

But it just proves it's a solid idea. One where you could go multiple paths either by sticking with a signgle author, spreading it out over others, sticking with a horror genre, or even diversifying the genres.

[Legacy]

The only reason I developed it the way I did was for variety. While writers like Lovecraft and Poe (and sure, King) have deep enough catalog to carry an entire event a majority of their most well-known stories take place in the same time-period or general location. Allowing the theme to diversify out prevents the "same-iness" that seems to be a sticking point with this year.

Hi, A&D. My name is Jeff. I live in Orlando and I'm always open to new job opportunities.

[agalloch]

Talk about one hell of a generic year.

[LV-426]

Walking Dead needs to come back, Walking Dead Must come back.... you do not take down a cash cow like this so soon. WD is easy cash, therefore it must be back for 2014,
For HHN and Uni, WD was the gift that kept on giving.

Edited October 9, 2013 by LV-426

[Legacy]

Whereas last year I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that TWD would return, I'm less certain that it will be at this current level in 2014. While the numbers encourage the use of IPs, my gut tells me we may have a more "original"-centric year next year. While TWD "Season 4" is possible, I think we may see AHS replace it as the "go-to" series. Granted, that's dependant on the reception to Coven.

I could be wrong. Next year, we could have any of the following:

TWD
Insidious
Nightingales (wha?)

AHS
Sleepy Hollow (let's be honest... it could work)

Yeah... Nightingales is the only house I'm confident in predicting this early for 2014.

[agalloch]

How about we hope for all original content next year instead of generic stuff?

[JDW]

IF TWD HAS to be back (grumble grumble) I wouldn't be ok with it being confined to a house and not permeate the event so efficaciously.

The house wasn't as bad as I anticipated and it was definitely an improvement over last year. I just hope the show goes downhill again (and with the intellegent zombies rumor it can't be too far away.) so it doesn't come back. But you can wish in one hand...

I do agree on Nightingales is due to return. It was supposed to be the next franchise... So I'm calling it Nightingales: Blood Fued (Civil War)

I think Insidious is a strong contender. Sleepy hollow... guess it depends how the show does.

[Legacy]

Actually, I think we could add The Purge to the list, since The Purge 2 is due out next year and there's already precedence for it.

Nightingales: Blood Feud isn't a bad idea. I'm partial to Nightingale: Rebellion (Revolutionary). Although Nightingales: Sword and Shield set during a) The Crusades or b )Generic medieval battle could be fun.

I'm still holding out hope for "Catacombs: Quarantined" however.

[agalloch]

HOW ABOUT NO IPS? SERIOUSLY WHY DO YOU WANT UNORIGINAL CONTENT?

[Legacy]

HOW ABOUT NO IPS? SERIOUSLY WHY DO YOU WANT UNORIGINAL CONTENT?

I'm not saying what I want (except Catacombs. I want that). We're discussing what is likely.

I'll never get what I want, which is a legitimately scary, innovative and unique event that works to push the boundries of the expectations of a haunt. HHN is too big for that, so I'll predict what IPs and known "franchise" concepts we will see next year.

[JDW]

HOW ABOUT NO IPS? SERIOUSLY WHY DO YOU WANT UNORIGINAL CONTENT?

No one said we do. But this year, IMO, the IPs were far better than most of the originals (probably due to the amount of time and money invested in them). It's just a fact that IPs are at the event so why fight it?

... and nightingales isn't an IP... well it is... (one created by A&D) But when people say IP they mean movies, TV shows, etc.

[Goo]

Honestly, I'd like them to use a show that actually falls into the horror genre. The Walking Dead is not horror. It's a drama taking place during the zombie apocalypse. It was never meant to be scary. American Horror Story on the other hand uses many aspects of the genre and is intentionally crazy and creepy. That's an IP I wouldn't mind seeing. If they're gonna use IPs, which they will, they need to pick something that can be scary because zombies are been there done that (how many times now?).

I for one wouldn't be surprised if TWD isn't at the event next year. Three years in a row is kind of risky. People don't want the same content year after year. Why would someone run out to HHN if they know they can just experience the same thing the following year? HHN has a reputation for new content year after year. If we do see it, though, I think having it as a scare zone would be appropriate. And by scare zone I mean the actual zones that we all know and love. I also think they need to incorporate the Legions and the zones into the event because I think that'd make the streets really awesome.

Also, I would LOVE to see Nightingales and Catacombs back. Those two houses were superb.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Goo

[LV-426]

Actually, I think we could add The Purge to the list, since The Purge 2 is due out next year and there's already precedence for it.

Nightingales: Blood Feud isn't a bad idea. I'm partial to Nightingale: Rebellion (Revolutionary). Although Nightingales: Sword and Shield set during a) The Crusades or b )Generic medieval battle could be fun.

I'm still holding out hope for "Catacombs: Quarantined" however.

I am actually disappointed and a little bit upset that we got a Havoc sequel before Catacombs or Nightingales. I guess I know Havoc was a fan favorite but this year it showed what I was expecting, Havoc is not really that good of a story for sequels. While Nightingales and Catacombs are more sequel worthy (imo) Im not saying the guys working the house are not doing a good job, but the Havoc sequel was not that cool in terms of story.

So I Would be really happy if they bring back Nightingales or Caracombs. (having both of them the same year would be phenomenal )

I honestly do not see an all original year happening any time soon. It would be great, but I don't think it is possible anymore.

Hollywood will keep getting Ips to use and Comcast will keep wanting to use those Ips on both parks. IPs bring in a lot of money and it is very good business wise.

Original houses are great for us, but I don't think it matters to them as much as getting more tickets sells matter when it comes to the IPs.

I can honestly see the next 4-5 years being all IP years. It might not happen.... But I wouldn't be surprised if it does.

[agalloch]

I'll never get what I want, which is a legitimately scary, innovative and unique event that works to push the boundries of the expectations of a haunt. HHN is too big for that, so I'll predict what IPs and known "franchise" concepts we will see next year.

It's more than management and marketing are a bunch of children who are too politically correct and get involved too much.

Except it isn't crazy or creepy. It's extremely generic and when you put it into a walkthrough you will see the same generic bits of it. It'll be a generic asylum with some generically "creepy" nurses and patients acting weird. How is that creative or original? The show was absolutely atrocious, too.

And guess what, you know what their most houses tend to be each year? The original stuff. If they bring Black Sabbath or Insidious next year I'm honestly going to be very pissed off and will be the first time I will NOT go to the event. Go read the Facebook page of the event and watch people complain about how disappointed they are in a lot of the things the event is doing. And it is not necessarily "good business" to run shitty, unoriginal things. Instead of going 3x this year, I went 2x. Next year, if it's IP stuff again, instead of 2x I will probably go 1x. Now combine that to a party of 4 and then less money is spent.

The creative team isn't happy - and I hear this indirectly. There is no creativity if what you have to do is copy and paste items from a movie set over. These minds aren't meant to be restricted whatsoever. Seriously, why even have a creative team if they aren't doing anything creative?

Even the QUALITY of most of the stuff this year was down. Nearly all the masks were atrocious, none of the houses (except AWIL) were THAT stellar, and the original (bad choices for originals, by the way) were watered down, horribly done houses.

There needs to be less circle-jerking about how the event is and more receptiveness to how generic it is becoming. It's been this way for years. Most people on this forum went to Orlando's event a few years, maybe 3, and they don't see how AMAZING it was back around HHN 12, 13, 14, and 15. Those four years did more for the event than anything else - and guess what, it was creative. Even Demon Cantina from HHN 15 was an indirect use of From Dusk Till Dawn, except it was still original, and they nailed it.

[Legacy]

It's more than management and marketing are a bunch of children who are too politically correct and get involved too much.

Well, yeah. That's their job, though. And it will continue to be their job. And as long as the numbers and profits are high they're doing their job well. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I can fight it.

I haven't been to the event since 2011 because, surprise, I saw the writing on the wall and decided that what they were presenting wasn't something I felt was worth attending. While I still appreciate the artistry of the event, I'm not going to pay for it. I'm not interested in IPs. But most of the General Public is and their opinion matters way more than mine (or ours). While I don't agree with your assessment that "IP=Generic," I understand where you are coming from and (to a certain extent) agree. I've just been expecting it and have become resigned to it.

(Though, when AHS would allow an Asylum with mutants, Bloody Face, the Angel of Death, UFOs, AND Bloody Face's dungeon, the past and present and various religious thematic elements to dismiss it as creepy nurses and patients acting weird really discredits the source material.)

[agalloch]

Well, yeah. That's their job, though. And it will continue to be their job. And as long as the numbers and profits are high they're doing their job well. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I can fight it.

I would love to know if they did research on whether growth from year to year is due to design decisions or it just being "the thing to do" in Orlando given its status? If they could determine that, when controlled, events that are more original have more frequency of regular attendees then I think profit would grow better when its original. At this point, HHN isn't going anywhere, profit is profit, and the cost cutting measures are painfully obvious in a lot of places of the event. So why not give them some fun money and see what happens?

Is it hard to not go on you personally? Like do you feel you're missing out on things? I still go, but the FREQUENCY that i go back is WAY down and I haven't bought merch in years because of how things are going lately.

Great point though on AHS, I just fear it being another IP heavy year next year and it'll destroy me.

[JDW]

IPs have always been and always will be at the event.

Some of my favorites are IPS. Some of them are Originals. A healthy mix is good. I've been since the beginning. I've seen the one house with a 3 hr wait and 20 shows. I agree they need to let A&D do their thing... But I doubt it will happen when they are trying to pull every Tom Dick and Harry to the event.

To say the sets weren't impressive this year is crazy though. They dumped a ton of money into them.
I have been to a lot of events, never have I seen anything on the scale of HHN set-wise. Even the houses I didn't care for are far beyond anything I've seen elsewhere.

Sure some makeups were poor but where do you go where every single makeup and mask is a hero mask? It just doesn't happen.

All that is forgivable anyway if the scare is original and entertaining.

I think Universal set it's own bar too high. Having to constantly out do itself. Remember 20ish years ago haunted houses virtually had no set themes and were just a hodegpodge of different scenes to scare people. I remember seeing an alf mask one time lol. Universal changed the game by giving the whole event a theme and structure (eventually the first few years were pretty much like a bigger mom and pop event).

I used to say bigger, more detailed sets is better than the scare... I think I may have been wrong in that . I love amazing sets but with houses like RE. Its beautiful but the scares just aren't there. I think the huge, sparsely populated vistas kill that one. I think a house needs to be tight and more intimate. Immersive is great. But immersion isn't the only thing that makes a house good.

Overall I was happy with the houses this year. Aside from Re and havoc I rated most above average and I'm an extremely jaded and hardened person whose been going through haunted houses for over 30 years.

But ultimately, I'm comes down to is it fun? If it's not fun then don't go, don't waste the money, and don't support something you don't like.

I have never had a bad time at HHN (aside from things out of their control) so I continue to go. When that is no longer true I will simply not go. I don't need to rip apart their houses... they are impressive. I have built many a haunt and I can't even fathom the amount of money, time, and man power it would take me to build some of their least impressive houses.

But it all boils down to what you find of value. To me... it's just a Halloween event. It's a fun thing to go do and spend time with the community. Their are things I like and things I don't like and currently the things I like outweigh the ones I don't.

Go or don't go, HHN isn't going to end and it certainly isn't changing for the "elite fan" who isn't happy with anything they do... and I'm not calling anyone out on that. I've been on both sides before. But life is easier if I leave it as a fun event and not an obsession because that way is never fullfilling and never meets the increasing expectations.

[Cesar Calderon]

Just went to HHN this past Sunday night it was so Awesome! Might do a review soon!!

[Kpop HHN Luvr]

I used to say bigger, more detailed sets is better than the scare... I think I may have been wrong in that . I love amazing sets but with houses like RE. Its beautiful but the scares just aren't there. I think the huge, sparsely populated vistas kill that one. I think a house needs to be tight and more intimate. Immersive is great. But immersion isn't the only thing that makes a house good.

I think this point explains why House of Horrors was actually my favorite last year (which, from what I've read, puts me in the minority). While the sets were nothing to write home about, the way they went for the scare was perfect. The bursts of air from the Phantom of the Opera when he played the organ and the final scene were clever and got me multiple times - which, considering it was a last minute house, shows that big budget and immersive houses don't always produce the best scares.

While the sets were awesome this year and I enjoyed them, it was pretty formulaic with the scares and I could see most of them from a mile away (except for Afterlife since I was so disoriented).

[_Veritas_]

I think a Purge house could work really well. I'd rather not see this Sleepy Hollow show used as an IP... because... well, I'm not a fan of the show (which turn about is fair play since I do love Walking Dead and I know plenty of people who don't.) I'd just rather see a Sleepy Hollow scarezone, not based off the show is all.

You also have Dracula: Untold coming out next year from Universal, keep in mind.

Also, if they keep with this trend of "game houses" I better see a Dino Crisis house eventually

[Goo]

Agalloch I honestly completely agree with you. The sad thing is, is that IPs are most likely here to stay. Yes, the glory days were what made HHN what it is but marketing has slaughtered this event to the point of what is probably no return. Early in the year when we got the house line up I posted this same argument but I still stand by it. I'm going this weekend but I already think this year is absolutely garbage. TWD is a flat out cop out and the over use of IPs is ridiculous. If things don't change, I'm probably gonna head over to HoS because it's cheaper and I think they're going in the direction that HHN should have went. I would love to go back to having only one or two IPs and having all original content but that isn't realistic anymore and we can't really do much about it. It's BS but that's how it is.

At this point HHN is becoming less and less of a "thing" for me. I used to love it but there's no creativity anymore and that's what got me into it in the first place. I think marketing doesn't really get what HHN is because this year isn't it and last year wasn't really it either. I honestly think that if they did an original year with maybe 1 IP that the same amount of people would show up and the same amount of tickets would be sold. HHN doesn't need the fluff that we got this year. They got the reputation they deserved AND wanted, but then marketing practically threw it in the trash with all this popular movies and tv shows nonsense. I understand having a movie house because it's Universal, but when they dominate the event I find that lazy.

The fact that they think TWD is good enough to even have a house at HHN really makes me laugh honestly. Whoever thought that idea was good needs to be fired. In fact, everyone whos on marketing needs to take a look at the Art of the Scare doc that the travel channel did and educate themselves on what HHN was.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Goo

[Coast]

HOW ABOUT NO IPS? SERIOUSLY WHY DO YOU WANT UNORIGINAL CONTENT?

Because An American Werewolf in London was a flawless house from start to finish? Seriously, does it matter if its an IP or original when it comes to how it's executed?

Everyone is complaining they want something new and they are tired of The Walking Dead, which would return for its 3rd year, yet they want an old icon in Jack, who would also make a return for a 3rd year? Doesnt make sense to me.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Coast